Cryptid Creeks - Chasing Curses in Your Cozy Town

Are you a huge fan of Gravity Falls, Hilda, Goonies and other coming of age media? Do you want to play as a band of river scouts chasing curses that afflict your cozy little town? And oh, Work with cryptids to actually get it done? 
Well you will love the game we talk about today on The RPG Goblin called Cryptid Creeks! It is all that I have said and more as we bring on the creator Rich from Hatchling Games! 

Cryptid Creeks is coming to Kickstarter September 5th 2023! You can get notified for it's release here so you can get your hands on it once the campaign is live: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tatteredbear/cryptid-creeks

Using the Brindlewood Bay system Cryptid Creeks is all about solving a mystery of why a curse is in your town, what caused it, and who is in control of it. Stakes are high as bad things can happen  with these curse. Anything from werewolf attacks, pollution, dreams, and more! But we describe this game as "spoozy" (spooky cozy) as yes things go bad but you are all playing as this crew of scouts and learning about the world and eventually solving these mysteries together as you grow and explore what's going on! 

Find Rich and Hatchling Games on: 
Twitter: https://twitter.com/HatchlingDM
Website: https://www.hatchlingsgames.co.uk/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HatchlingDM
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@hatchlingdm2759/videos

Where to get the game:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tatteredbear/cryptid-creeks

Transcript

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Are you looking for a really spooky, cozy, family friendly RPG to introduce to your table inspired by media like the Goonies and Hilda? where basically you are in a small town and you are working with cryptids to try and solve curses that keep showing up. Well, then the game that we are gonna be talking about today, cryptid Creeks is exactly for you. This game is absolutely adorable and made by the amazing hatchling games. And I have brought on Rich who is the creator of cryptid Creek to come on and talk all about cryptid creeks with me. This is an absolutely adorable game. It is going to be their newest game that is coming to Kickstarter on September 5th. So if you're listening to this episode right when it comes out, that is only a few days away. So you have time to get this game for yourself And even if you're listening to this afterwards, the Kickstarter is gonna be up for a while, so make sure to check the link in the description of this episode to go to the Kickstarter Or you can go on Kickstarter and just search cryptid Creeks and find it yourself and get the game because it's amazing, and I really want to as well. So, with that all said, I think it's time to get into it and hear all about this Spoozy game, cryptid creeks. So let's get into it. Welcome everyone to the RPG Goblin. I am your host, Willow, and I am the one who asks all of the questions and who are just really curious about all of the games. if you don't know, the RPG Govelin is a podcast that makes learning TTRPGs fun and easy. And on today's episode, we are going to be talking about a new game that is coming to Kickstarter, which it might already be out by the time this is this episode releases, so you should be able to get it, but this is a game coming to Kickstarter called cryptid Creeks, and I am so insanely excited to tell you all about it. not tell you all about all about it, but talk to the creator, actually, and for him to tell you all about it because it's an amazing game. And Like I said, we have the creator here to talk about the game. Rich Oxingham. Rich, if you would like to introduce yourself and tell one what you do and where everyone can find you and when this kickstart is gonna be out. Well, thank you very much. Who will I yeah. I'm pleased to be here. my name is Rich. I'm the director of hatchlings games. we make tabletop RPGs for all ages of player. We're kind of best known for Insprials and Overrials, which are, groundbreaking RPGs that teach sign language. both ESL and ASL and soon other languages because we've site we've signed with the licenses, so that's exciting. Oh, that's very, very exciting. Yeah. and yeah. So cryptid Creeks is our next big, launch. both through crowdfunding and as a as a core game. And, it's a spooky adventure in the vein of inspired by Crowity Falls and things like Hilda and the goonies. And, yeah, it's coming to Kickstarter on September 5th. September 5th. Perfect. Yeah. No. I am so, so, so, very excited to hear about this game. especially I remember seeing it for the first time on Twitter. I think it was. I'm like, I know what I know what game I'm getting. Yeah. It seems to connect with people in a really weird way. I think part of that is because of its inspirations, but also partly because I think that the sort of genre of game, which is like, you know, scouts and kind of like campfire tales and, like, you know, like, groups of children is isn't re hasn't really exploded as I would imagine it would do with role playing games. You know, you've got kids on bikes and, like, you know, this DND stranger things set and, and a few other sort of, like, sporadic games, but there's never it never really exploded, like, how fancy did or sexual science fiction. Yeah. For sure. I'd I would absolutely agree with that. And then I can think of a few games, even recently, batch quest is kind of along that line too that I know is recently coming or recently came out. And that seems to be quite a popular genre, with digital, which is really cool to see, especially, I think a lot of people who grew up with these cut types of tropes and movies, you know, that kids on bikes feel and stuff like that. Yeah. very popular with them. Yeah. I mean, it all come I mean, I love the eighties films. I mean, my favorite movie ever is Standby Me, which back a group of kids, obviously, Stephen King's short story. But I loved all those films, the goonies, you know, all those types of of movies and, and even the books I read are sort of coming of age or sort of novels -- Mhmm. -- and white and young adults of fiction. So, yeah, that's kind of how it started, in terms of fixed sort of world. but it's also, like, deep it's deeply personal to me. So, I I I grew up in on a boatyard when I was younger. It was a a a young teenager, and and we we we were trying to renovate, like, a a folk boat on this boatyard. So I used to I used to sail in the river all the time and, like, you know, you go fishing on the on the pottoons and things. That's amazing. So it's kinda from that as well. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's that's absolutely fantastic to bring in that personal touch into your own games. mean, like, that's one of my favorite things of getting more into the indie games and games that are made by, like, small publishing teams. as well because they're usually so much more personal, and you can tell how much love and care is put into them too, and just the ideas are amazing. Yeah. No. I quickly agree with that. They almost feel like a little vignette sort of a person's experiences. Mhmm. And, like, and they're very, very often very focused. Right? So you get, like, a kind of specific, theme or topic or kind of, like, expiration. Mhmm. And they take it, you know, take it in a a long way in a into a deep place, really. in some ways. Yes. Absolutely. I like this I like this recent movement of Solarpunk kind of like, you know, like, like, a optimistic post apocalyptic. Yeah. No. I I've I've actually seen a little bit of that too coming up, and that's been especially with everything going on in the world and stuff. Like, it's it's nice to kind of see that kind of media pop up and be like, oh, there can be hope. Yes. Exactly. Well, this crypto creaks is is kind of ostensibly about nature kind of Rising. Okay. Nature and community kind of rising up against, like, a spreading darkness. So you can you can read into what you want with that, but, like, But it involves a lot of, like, ecology and environmentalism as well with it. We wanted to get that in there. Yeah. I absolutely adore that. And, actually, I think that's a good sort of segway to get into talking about cryptid Creeks itself. And I think kind of the the best starting question is Can you explain to everyone listening what cryptid Creeks is and the idea behind it? Yeah. Sure. No problem. so crypto Creeks, started off as a powered by the apocalypse game, specifically. powered by the apocalypse is is a popular, system or platform to build RPGs upon. but, over time, I discovered other systems and and the system reference documents. And I came across some, Brinderwood Bay by Jason Cordova, and It seemed to fit perfectly. I didn't realize initially that there was, like, there was an open license for that for that system. So I was delighted to discover that there's the car from Brinderwood kind of movement and and a lot of games are stemming from that already. in fact, 11 a couple of NE's last week. So -- That's me. -- I looked into that system, and it seemed to fit cryptic creeps perfectly in terms of, like, a mystery genre. it doesn't have to be murder mysteries. It doesn't have to be super dark even though most of the games through that through that sort of movement are. but I thought I'd create the 1st kind of young adult or, like, or child friendly, all ages version. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's so cool to take it through your own lens and through, you know, make it your own. Yeah. So so the blurb is a quick tweak is about a crew of river scouts attempting to lift the curse with the help of chaotic nature spirits. so the game focused on supernatural adventures and its car from Bryndwood, a term for content based on Jason Cordo as Bryndwood Bay. inspired by gravity falls, Hilda De Goonies, lumber James, which is a graphic novel series, and night in the woods, which is a brilliant indie video game. and the works of Studio Ghibli, which all our games seem to be slightly influenced by Studio Ghibli. I mean, Studio Ghibli. I'm obsessed with those films. I don't blame you. They're so good. They're fantastic. So I I love I love seeing that as, you know, a a piece of media that inspires games all the time. So we've seen it with this is very, very exciting, as well as I love the fact that you're working with the cryptids. Oh, yeah. For sure. From the from the start, we wanted it to be kind of, like, slightly slightly chaotic, kind of, like, pictures. and, you start the game by being introduced to it, basically, which is a a gigantic animal. So, like, if you imagine, like, some of the, creatures from Hilda, like, the kind of lighting, Yeah. Some of those sort of, like, giant creatures that that she meets. Mhmm. Or the kind of, like, the big wolves or, like, pause from Princess on an okay. Yeah. No. I love that. That's so, so cool. And also just nice to see a game that where it doesn't focus on, you know, having to hunt down these cryptids or or monsters and things like that. because that happens. I mean, monster of the week is that way, and there's quite a few other games that have that focus. So this, again, just feels more light and and and friendly. Yeah. It it is it's meant to be more quirky and more kind of like, uh-uh, a different type of misery. you know, and it leans into I mean, the monster I love Monster of the week, and I mean, that is partly inspired by that as well. But super. Yeah. Exactly. But it is it can be very violent. It can be very, very in intent on kind of -- Mhmm. -- bloodshed. But, So this is very much not that. It's what we call our games, family friendly and kind of like leaning into different aspects. So we we get our attention from something called the curse clock. So so the curse clock is this is this kind of, like, mechanic at the heart of the game. And it basically it has 4 phases. And the 1st phase, it starts with the curse, like, the rumblings of a curse, a very low low key kind of like occurrences around community and the and the town. And as it goes through the 4 phases, it kind of, escalates and kind of grows and evolves. and each phase asks for a different kind of approach from the players, and culminate in the kind of, like, grand finale where they've got destroyed item, which is spreading this curse. That is so so cool. So, like, what are the, you know, you say, like, the 1st phases with the rumblings of starting things starting to pop up. What are the other phases? So the 2nd phase would be it's starting to actually become more, prevalent within the community. So so our our sample curse, for instance, is called the the cold steel curse, and it's about essentially someone so the the the before before I go into that, so the whole premise of the game is that there's a there's a very enigmatic and mysterious character called the peddler. which is actually is actually an old world demon. And it kind of arrives in this town, and it sells 1 of the locals, one of the townsfolk, a cursed item, basically. Okay. I see. And the peddler is the antithesis to the watcher, which is one of our chief credit in the community, which has been, like, living in harmony with with your town for, like, centuries. So they're kind of they're kind of like, what's what's the word? Like, they're kind of like rival. Oh, yeah. worldly beings, basically. Oh, I love that. That's really cool. So this peddler basically gives one of these towns one of the townsfolk an item, and that item manifests their darkest kind of, like, imaginings. Oh. If you imagine if you imagine, like, you know, like, Ghostbusters, you know, like, like, they they try not to think of something And then the stay puft marshmallow mat appears, right? And, like, destroys the city. So it's a bit like that. It's a bit like you, you know, you can't they can't help but manifest these things. Oh, yeah. I like that a lot, actually. That's really, really cool. Yeah. So in the 1st phase of our sample curse is basically the cryptid, the water is a giant octopus. They kind of like drapes over the clubhouse. And then all the all the areas of these little crabs, And basically, we you don't know the curse at the beginning. I know in fact, the the navigator, which is the GM of the game, doesn't also also doesn't know who the person who owns the item is and what the item is. Mhmm. It just they just know they just know a series of clues. and they know, what the curse kinda how the curse kinda manifests. Oh, actually, that's really cool. So you basically You don't have the that's really interesting. So you don't have it all set out. -- dances. You don't have dances. I'll figure it out at the beginning. So you're all figuring out together as a group 3 player. Exactly. So the plus so so so it all all depends on the players that are fully rolling. So in Bryndallwood Bay, there isn't actually one there isn't actually a set murderer. Mhmm. So the players or the the murder masons, the group of old ladies that are kind of investigating the murder. They kind of they kind of solve it by passing tests, basically. And then they they they do a theorized at the end where they go, oh, I we think this is the murderer. And then if they pass the test, then that is the murderer, essentially. At some cool. I love-- Yeah. It is because it's like real, real good agency for the players. Right? Yeah. And, like, it actually makes it You know, especially because I feel like it's really hard to set up murder mysteries in a TTRPG game and, like, make it work correctly. giving that agency and, like, leaving it up to whatever happens throughout the game is really, really is a really interesting take on it, and I think Now I need to try that. Yeah. When I discovered it, and I read through it, I was thinking this is quite radical. And the is it easy is it easy to set up? Is it easy to to, like, keep control of the sessions. Mhmm. And it is actually really simple. It's actually it it's really intuitive and it works really well. it's just it's about allowing the players to basically expand the fiction and the and the kind of mystery through their roles, basically, and through their interactions. That's so cool. I absolutely adore that. You ain't even you also have incredible things called paint the scene? where where where you have say you have a set location somewhere, say it's like a diner or something, then when the players go in there, you have a paint, the scene question, you say, like, what's the special of the day or or, who's making sort of, like, some sort of, like, ruckus in there. Oh, that's so cool. And but, basically, the players are creating the world around them all the time. Mhmm. So this is, like, a this is a great game, especially if you have, like, active, proactive players that want to, build the story with you. Yes. Exactly. That's exactly it. Yeah. So I didn't have any option but to follow this system because it was so appealing, like, I read through it. So it was like, yep, sold, sold, How are the Poplar Poplets is great as well? But I this is just a this just fit it so well, basically. Yeah. For sure. I mean, I think, you know, It's it's always great to find a system that helps that help push the game in the direction that you want it to go. You know, it's You know, there's nothing bad with powered by the apocalypse if it doesn't work for that and something else does. It's just that's what was needed for this game. Yeah. Love it. I always think, though, I thought I think it's hilarious. I think this system reference documents are up to see hilarious because if I think they were like a cheat sheet screen games, Like, we we made dragon dows are based on the carpet system, which is a solo journaling system. Mhmm. Honestly, now now I can probably knock out about 5 a year just because I know it so well. And it's just like someone's already done all the playtesting. So I'm like, oh, okay. That's the hardest bit of creation. You don't have to create your own systems. I mean, that's always tricky because you have to, you know, work out the math and you have play testing. It's gotta go just, like, can so much work that has to go into it. So, like, props to those seriously. Why would you why would you bother? Why would you bother? That's something else to do it. So true, man. I I absolutely love that, and it's so cool that you were able to find this game and and use it for this for a cryptidcreek because it sounds perfect. And so -- It fits it very well. and you're saying, so you were given the context of of you know, being, the peddler coming in and selling off the item, then the, you know, kind of the rivalry between the watcher and the peddler and the mystery. So how does that connect to the countdown clock? So what cause we were still going through the steps of the countdown? Yeah. Of course. Yeah. So so with with the example, Kerse, so the clues are quite hard to find at the beginning. Yeah. Mhmm. And they spend the 1st phase kind of doing research in the beginnings of rumors circling around town. there's a palpable kind of unease amongst the community. and people's belongings are kind of, I can't read the sound, you know, because people are gonna be trying to play this. Basically, now I can't read the sample one out, but basically, look, I'll give you I'll give you a random example. All good. Yeah. All people know is a octopus. That's fine. so so so it's basically the the 4 phases represent the growth of the curse. So the first phase is the items being used by someone, and it's kind of manifesting this dark kind of oering us. And that can manifest any way. Yeah. You want it to be like a zombie outbreak. It could be like pirates. It could be like, some sort of, like, fog, anything like that. I love it. So so the curse is up to you, but the the and the item is also discovered by the players, like I said, through their roles. Mhmm. And then the 2nd phase, it gets more serious. So it's just like an escalation, basically. So say it's say it's like the the zombies, though, or the or where we'll say, then the stop more would start popping up and they become like a pack or something in the woods, and you'd hear like howling. And I think that's and stuff things will be damaged and someone might have been attacked or something. And the 3rd phase, it would be like the, you know, they're they're sort of like assaulting the town, or there's kind of more of them being turned. Mhmm. and, like, you know, also anything that that that would turn up clues, basically, to the curse. And and and and it would, you know, it would, like, create footprints to what what the curse actually is. I like it. That's really cool. And then and then the final phase, you have to kind of you have to kind of identify the item at the heart of it. So if it's werewolves, it might be something like a moon medallion or something like, I don't know, like, a pet. Pet scratcher. So I have no idea. a pet scratch. No. That's a terrible example. No. I love it. It would be so cute. dog scratcher. It could be anything. I mean, like, it's a valid option. Yeah. It could be absolutely anything. So So that in it's it's important for each one of those those pieces on the clock each one of those steps to escalate and to get worse. Yes. Yes. And it wouldn't be it wouldn't be signpost by the navigator. It would just they wouldn't say, oh, you're in the 2nd phase now. It would just be it would be obvious that you're moving into it. Yeah. It just starts to happen. You know, you you yes. Yeah. And it gets more and more tense. And, also, one of the great things we've got, which is which which just ties into the phases, is that, the so so in Paraguay DuPocalypse and in Bryndwood Bay, you have a thing called Moose, which is which essentially dictate all your actions within the game. Yes. Yes. And, we've got these, special moves called Badger, because they're like scout badgers. I love that. Basically, some of the moves for the scouts, only activate in certain phases. I think that's really cool. That is really, really cool. Yeah. So so the leader of the group's more powerful in the final phase, the skipper, basically. And then the medic is has a has an ability in the 3rd phase. Are people potentially be injured or or, like, like, you know, kind of mentally affected. Yeah. No. That's that's really, really cool. And so, can I ask why you went for that approach other -- like, went for that approach instead of just having them be available all the time. Just because it makes them feel kind of unique and special, I think. And I think also it thinks it gives them different u utility at different phases of the game. Mhmm. So we're because, obviously, you could play the 4 phases in a one shot. It could we're calling a pilot. Basically, it could be be, you can go through the 1 day, essentially, with the curse. or you could play over months where it could be, like the 1st phase could be, like, 3 sessions, 2nd phase, 3 sessions, and so on and so forth. Mhmm. So but with those with those abilities activating then, obviously, that the that that would come probably because you've got, like, 8 moves each. essentially, you can unlock 8 moves throughout the game. you start off with a a basic one. that you can use all the time. It's kind of like attached to your character or on creation. Lovely. And then as you upgrade your as you've advanced your character, you can you can you can take more badges or the most -- Mhmm. and the one that's phase specific is, like, the 3rd in you can pick it at any time you want, basically. So if you if you got a if you're in the 1st phase and you wouldn't wanna obviously if you're in the 2nd phase, rather, you won't wanna pick a, a special move that only happens in the 1st phase. Mhmm. That's really interesting because you've already gone past it. Yeah. Yeah. No. I like that a lot. That's really cool. Yeah. I, I like that approach, you know, making each of the characters feel special. And having variety between each of the phases is also Really important too. And I'm assuming so there's obviously those character focused moves. Are there also more broader basic moves for everyone, or are those only once. Yeah. No. The basic moves are at the heart of getting really here. That's what you'll be using mostly. so we've got the creek move, which is just basically your every oh, it's it's called the scout move for us rather now. I I've renamed some of these recently. the scout move is kind of every day. You push yourself or do something kind of like, intense -- Mhmm. -- or scary. and then you've got the, curse move, which anything to do with investigation -- Like it. -- or, like, research, So even if you're talking to someone trying to get information about the curse from them, you still use the curse move. Mhmm. and then you got the creek move Sorry. The crew move, which is, when you kind of, like, have an interaction on your you have a boat in the game base. It's really important. It's, like, kind of the one of the hearts of the game as well. because, like, I told you about my history and my my background in sailing. So, you use this boat on the river and you gotta travel travel up and down the creek quite often to gather clues. Yeah. It is cute. Yeah. And then, so the crew move is you is used when you're on the boat, and you space a lot of interaction between you fellow scouts. And what you do is you clear misfortunes, misfortunes, kind of, like, lichens that be negative -- Mhmm. -- throughout the game. So you can clear them that way. And you also learn us something about your fellow scout in as well. Oh, it's fun. So it's just like a little almost like group. Yeah. You know, like, in the coming of age films, they always have those interns in the characters where it's like, like, oh, you know, what you're thinking about going back to school and, like, you know, all these things, like, all all these films, like, Professor Buehler and you know, the breakfast club and the goonies and all these. Mhmm. You have these touching moments. And I cut the kind of crew moves meant to reflect that. Yeah. No. I I love that, and I I absolutely got that immediately. I was trying to, like, what is the name of, like, that kind of scene? Because I I got that where you you just have that moment together. and you're able to kind of almost be more raw and more serious in that moment, like, kind of check-in. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. A bit more vulnerable. Yeah. And also it kind of, like, breaks up the kind of action as well. So if you're hunting around the creek for clues all the time, then you want those most slows down, like, any, like, any good film does. you know, like, in spirited away and things like that and other chibley films, there's those moments where it's kind of like just two characters talking to each about things, and it doesn't even have to be to about the main kind of, like, narrative. Mhmm. It it can just be role play, you know? Exactly.-- gonna push that forward even more because a game that is focused on just, like, go, go, go, go action all the time. can get very exhausting and especially groups that love role play in that collaborative storytelling, having something that's set in the game already that promotes and kind of lets you do that even better. Like, yeah, this is like an actual move that we can take at this time to have a scene where we just role play together. and just have a good time. Maybe we're all eating at the diner, and it's just after we found out about the curse and, you know, what are we thinking and all of that. That's really cute. I love that a lot. You need those moments where you're you're kind of, like, huddling and kind of, discussing the clues as well. because you need to be theorizing as you go along, and that will also help the navigator because you do out loud. You don't you don't you do not have secret conversation. Yeah. So navigate is like, oh, they've mentioned this. They these put they've put these 2 clothes together, which were absolutely desperate before. But now I'm thinking, actually, this might lead to this item or this might so that so Navigator can think on their feet all the time through feedback from the player. I like that a lot. And so does -- -- the organic approach to it. Right? Yeah. No. I love that. And so it feels also like a pretty low prep game, especially for the navigator. Like, you don't have to come in with a lot of, like, ideas. Like, oh, this is how each of these steps of the mystery is gonna go. Blah blah blah blah blah. you can come in, like you said, with just the idea of the item and the curse and then kind of let them run wild. Yeah. We literally have for the for the for for each for each curse. Right? We have, a small section on presenting it. Mhmm. right, introduce the watcher. So what is the what who is the watcher and what is the watcher? What creature is it? like, 4 file 4 or 5 locations. Okay? Uh-huh. 4 or 5 suspects who were the person that owns the item. Mhmm. And then a list of clues. That is literally it. That's so good. I love that. It's like 2 a four pages worth. Yeah. That no. That is, like, very simple. Like, oh, you can do it the day of or or or maybe, like, hour before the session and kind of get it done. And then, again, just let them go just let them run wild because that's always my favorite part is when My players start to theorize and and have their own ideas of what's going on and try, especially within monster of the week, actually. I love it also. Yeah. For sure. If you guys, I'm like, alright, yeah, give me some ideas, please. Exactly. Exactly. But I think that's the, what we're talking about with indie games before I think in the games is it feels, incredibly collaborative on times. Mhmm. And and and and that, you know, we put that that foot of of the GM or the personal runner game just another player. And I love the idea of, like, you know, there's everyone's an equal player in it. And especially in this Brinderwood system in in the in terms of everyone feels like they're contributing to narrative. Mhmm. Absolutely. And everyone just feels involved, and I definitely I have a preference towards that type of storytelling, so this just makes me really happy hearing it all. Yeah. I'm glad you're I'm glad you're excited. the next move is so cool. So, so in in Brynderwood, there's a move called the gold crown mysteries move, right, which is basically you what you do is you there was there was a there's a there's a there's a tech or a fictional detective that inspires the group of mavens. Oh, that's fine. so it's like, you know, like, miss Markle or someone like that. but she's a famous novelist, and she writes crime novels. And, and and one of the moves in it is called the Gold Crown Mystery's move, where they they hark back a passage in a book or or a the way they solved the mystery. Mhmm. And they apply it to the current murder. That's so cool. It's so it's such an when I read it, I was like, that's so cool. That's such a clever idea. That is genius. That is Oh, that's just so fun. You know? And it -- Yeah. God. I love you. It's really unique as well to the world. It feels very specific to the world. so we've got the Hilda move, which is basically all your scouts grew up with a character called Aunt Hilda. And, basically, she's tell stories about these cryptids, and about these weird these curses, basically. Mhmm. And, obviously, when you grow up as scouts, you didn't believe any of it, you think she was maybe a bit, you know, loopier web or a bit eccentric at the very least. but it turns out all of obviously, all of it is real. Mhmm. And, so one of the moves, the Hilda move is you do you do you all the scouts get together and one of you says, do you remember Aunt Hilda's story? So you apply so she was a scout when she was a kid in the sixties, and, basically, she was the person that previously would occur. that the pedlar had sold. That's so good. So you park back to heard around, you know, the the open fire in a cabin or whatever. Uh-huh. And then you you apply you apply it to the current curse. And then you get you get a bonus on the role, and you learn something about the peddler. So you get kind of the voices. That's so cool. And so when it comes to the stories, that something that the do the players make up a story, or is that on the navigator to make up a story? Oh, no. The the players will make you up. Oh, perfect. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. So they so they they look at the they look at their current clues or look at the current curse and how it's working. and they go, oh, this is like, you know, something someone's someone's approaching from the ocean or something. Do you remember Hilda's story about those fish? fishmen or something or or or the way she dealt with, you know, like, that that acid rain or something that was coming all across the woods. Yeah. That's it. Oh, this is adorable. I love this so much. Yeah. I just I just love the system that that Jason created. It's just so, so good for role playing. Just so role playing. Just with what you've been saying, I I I absolutely agree, and I am going to be getting Brindle Baywood. Now-- Yep. Yep. Definitely should. Or or Bryndel Wood Bay? Wow. I know how to say it. Yeah. But, yeah, no, that that sounds absolutely genius. I adore it so much. And so, actually, that's we talked quite a bit about, you know, the idea of the story and the way the the stories are set up within, crypted creeks. And I kinda wanna get into the character creation a little bit and talk about What are the options and the steps of creating a character with encrypted creaks? Cool. Yeah. We do that. so you start traditionally, like, you said, do you have the the things you have initially or playbooks, actually? Mhmm. And, you you can pick from with the with the account version is 5, but there'll be 8 in the final version. and they range from, like, the the the conduit who who is better at contacting, this sort of, like, supernatural elements of the of the creek So the earrings and the watcher, and they can use the there's a move. Basic move called the earring move, which is basically your supernatural move. and they're much more attuned to that. Mhmm. I've got a stow away, which is kind of your sort of sneaky kind of character. Skipper is kind of your leader character, and then the negotiator who's good at, obviously, talking. and social interactions. there you're kind of and then the medic is your kind of, like, healer and kind of, like, you know, boostbooster. I just love the names of these. Also, I have to say the the playbook names are really cute. Yeah. They're all based on nautical terms. I love it. They're they're rivers outs. So they will base all of them blend up being based on that. This is like the -- faster. Sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. So once you've picked your playbook, you kind of you put down your name, obviously, and you get you obviously you can put down a scouting name and nickname if you want. Oh, cute. You create your you create your style. so, you know, typically in any role playing game, you have, like, a the way you look at your mannerisms potentially, anything that you need. Is that all unique? Adorable. Then you you create you have 2 can see. One collection is with a place in the town, basically. So at the beginning of the game, you create your town map. So you you you name your town that you're in, and you kind of put down some locations or or landmarks. so one of the initial things you do is you create a connection with one of these places and make a little story about it. Oh, cute. And the other thing you do is you determine your relationship with Aunt Hilda. So are you related to her? It had it had is it is a positive or negative relationship? That's really cute. And so then you can I mean, that just gives you information right off the start of the dynamics between these these characters and and all that and all of that. Love it. Yeah. I think it's really important to have a section on background in games. there's an amazing mechanic having in and it's the thing. It's playing crowns, basically. one of the crowns called the crown of the queen. Yeah. And when you put it on, you have to describe your old lady investigator. as a young person, their relationships, they're, like, kind of, like, you know, like, marriage, their children, their jobs. So so when you put this crown on, you kind of you kind of force before the end of an end of a sort of, like, session to kind of go into that backstory a bit. But having this right up front, we're having this because it's a very specific location we've got and aren't healed as kind of like a a very important character within a fiction. So Yeah. For sure. I like that a lot. I mean, both approaches, I think, are really good, especially building up the town together in, like, locations. I think is a really, really great way to get the players invested in the world, because that's actually something similar to what I did when I built, when I built my campaign for my monster of the week game, is that I had the players create a bunch of MPCs that they knew and were either related to or were what their relationship was to them and then some locations, and they basically filled out the world for me. And so when I started the game, I really only, like, created, like, maybe two places, and those were just and those were just involved with the start of the mystery. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what we want from this as well. We want that kind of like the player player creative creativity. Yeah. App absolutely love that. And I love how it brings it that way. Yeah. Fantastic. Awesome. So when we got milestones, and this is important because this is the way you earn XP, And at the end of each session, what they're called episodes in this, because it meant to feel like a Saturday morning cartoon. Mhmm. Perfect. So the milestones are questions that you need to answer whether you've covered them during the session. So the first one is did you uphold the RiverScout promise? Now RiverScout promise is tied to safety tools. It's basically about respecting, you know, different backgrounds or unknown discrimination and, like, respect to your navigator. all these things. They're kind of like, what's the word, like, a list of etiquette? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you if you withhold those principles, that you're that you you'd learn at the beginning of the game, then you you get an XP. That's so cool. I love that. It's kind of like it's kind of promoting good kind of like, yeah. Yeah. Being table. Being a good person. Well, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Did you encounter the curse? Did you discover 2 or more clues? Did you form any new connections? Did you overcome a perilous situation? And did you learn about the peddler? Oh, that's so fun. If you answer any of these, you get XP. And so is it a group thing, or is it an individual thing? like, the individual players. Oh, it'd be a group thing. Sorry. You get XP each. Yeah. Oh, that's so fun. Yeah. Oh, that's adorable. Yeah. And then so when you -- -- with a group. Love it. And that also just makes it really sweet and kinda puts the group even further together is by making those types of things a group activity versus solo. And that's, yeah, When you get XP, what can you use that on? So you get, you can either get, an extra badge, a new badge, you can increase your strength modifiers. So your strengths are physical, like, athletics, smart, hang on a little bit while they're the 5 different ones. Sorry. I've been just finished creating this. Your strengths are there they are. So athletic, smart, cool, swab, and a tune. So athletics, obviously, physical stuff, even dexterity. smart is kind of flow meant to actually research strategy. call is kind of like nerves, steady nerves, confidence leadership, suave, his social interactions, charm, and influence, and a tune is anything supernatural related to the curse. Oh, I like those a lot. Yeah. yes. You can get an yeah. You can boost one of them. You can get a new badge. or you can add to your pen knife. Now your pen knife is essentially like a multi tool, like a Swiss army knife. basically. And you start each scout starts to gain with 3 attachments. There could be anything you want. It could be magnifying glass, like a knife, a saw, anything that fit in your pocket and, basically, like, can opener. Oh, that's cute. And then you can as a when you get an HP, you can spend it on, an extra attachment. And those attachments could be used to gain advantage on roles, basically. Uh-huh. Which actually, I did see that when I was checking out the preview page for the Kickstarter. Someone was asking about why you would use 3 dice. when this is a 2 die system kind of similar to powered by the apocalypse. Oh, yeah. Sure. And so I'm guessing the advantage. -- Yeah. what you just said there with you, with having an advantage, that's where you're using 3 days. Exactly. Well, I mean, what what's your opinion? Do you think? because we're we're we're Just love a little bit of a brainstorming. So, like, so we we I don't know how many dice to sell with the game. Like, would you say would you say to sell 2 cordis, or would you say that 3 would be good? Mhmm. But these are custom dice. So, like, obviously makes a difference. I mean, I think the thing is you could go either way. If if the tool and the advantage comes up enough times. I think 3 dice would make a lot of sense, you know, if that comes up often blur using that and, you know, you're gonna be needing 3 dice, either, like -- Yeah. -- at least one time a session and, like, consistently throughout the game. 3 dice makes sense if you're if it's gonna be a rare occasion thing, because most people, especially who play these games, have a d 6 round. And even if they don't, a d 6 privacy to come by. Oh, yeah. Of course. Absolutely. Yeah. board games. So if it's something that, like, rarely comes up and, like, my, oh, this is a very special occasion, like, one time throughout the entire arc of this story or this entire campaign, then I would say too would make sense. So it depends on -- -- come up a lot. That's the thing. gonna come up a lot because the reason why is because they're used for disadvantage as well. So you roll free dice and you take the lowest 2. So and and one of the main reactions from the key from the navigator is to put miss fortune on the scout and the scouts that miss fortune calls disadvantage. So it's gonna be used a lot. Yeah. I would say 3 then. If it's gonna be used a lot with this advantage advantage and all of that. Yeah. So that answers my quest. That answers your question. It also helps me a lot Love it. Love a little bit of a work cup. Yeah. So, yeah, so so, yeah, you the 3 I love the 3 of these 6 dye systems anyway because it doesn't take a lot. It doesn't take a lot to to source them, like you say. it's nice to have custom dice, which will start with the game anyway, but -- Mhmm. -- I haven't told anyone about these dice. I haven't shown anyone these dice, but they're gonna be incredible. They're done by they're done by Room Fable, and they're basically liquid core. And the sixes are gonna have, like, these earrings some of the eerie designs are, like, these, like, weird, like, sort of, like, oily blobs, basic with eyes. I'd pre probably seen them during some of the art or on the preview page. But, basically, they're gonna be inside the liquid ice, and they're gonna be moving about when you run it. It's so cute. Yeah. So cute. I cannot. As as someone who has made a lot of dice and I was a dice maker for a while. Oh, no. makes me incredibly excited to see these. Yeah. So the other one, which we'll post on the Kickstarter 4 launch, obviously, The other one is, like, representing the river, and it's gonna blow you against my liquid core inside, but it's gonna have, like, these I don't know how you I don't know how how he how Miles creates them, but you probably make way more idea than I have, but it's, like, these kind of, like, almost like seaweed like blobs inside the the the the resin. So it's gonna have, like, the river and then that kind of, like, a pebble seaweed inside or around the edges. That's so cool. I cannot wait to see these. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I'm I'm really excited because he's he's bringing them to tabletop, Scott, in in a couple of weeks. So I'm gonna get to see the the kind of price types. Oh, that's amazing. And I think, I mean, this is just from my dice goblin opinion as well. 3 dice also means that you get more cool dice. So -- Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's not a bad thing. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, even if even if it if they didn't come up all the time, maybe still be worth it to have 3 because they're disrespectful. I think they'll come up. I think they'll easily come up enough. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. I think I think that's awesome that it it does come up a lot. And that That also gives it its own thing as well. I don't know how the Brindle Wood Bay system works and whether it or whether or not has those advantage disadvantaged things, but even empowered by the apocalypse, it kind of differentiates itself from it. And, you know, you have that advantage, disadvantage, and even having the conditions, causing the disadvantage versus, like, just a minus to something too. So it still kinda leads it up to chance. I like that a lot. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's true. I think the 3 to 6 dice sounds nice anyway. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Nice. I mean, 3 is three is a good number. even if it's, like, multiples of 3, all that. Love it. Yeah. So, so that's yeah, that's the kind of character. That's the way to do, really. You pick you pick your, your badges, your playbook, and either way. And you got you got a basic badge you start with, and then you as says as you upgrade as you advance, you can pick up other ones if you choose. That's so fun. I I love that a lot. The character creation is also seems very simple too that it's an easy game to pick up just for one shot. Like, I wanna -- It's that simple. It's that simple. The whole game is like, And it means that we it means that we with if we've got, say, a 150 page game, then we can, sort of like 60 60 pages, 70 pages can be, like, half the book can basically be the rules and and the r. And then the other half can be you know, like, advanced kind of rules and to push the the narrative a lot further, lean more into the peddler and and and Hilda. And then, we can have for kind of, like, rolling tables for inspirations, elective curse examples, and then we can have some real good tutorial cursive. So, like, like, at different levels because because each curse has a different a difficulty level. So so so it's, like, easy, moderate, and advanced. And then so we could create those samples so people can dive straight into it. You know, they could have all the all the locations done, all the kind of, like, the suspects and the clues. Yeah. That's perfect. And I love that was actually something I was gonna ask is if it was going to include, like, prewritten adventures, and stuff like that that you could just, you know Yeah. We're gonna have we're gonna have everything with this. We're gonna have pre reinventions. We're gonna have, we're gonna have, what's it called, a pre pregenerated. We're gonna have Yeah. So people I want people to be able to dive straight into it, with very, very little prep. just a quick read through of the book. Yeah. I I adore that. I think that's again, I I always like and I I've seen a lot for you as well that, you, like, accessibility within games. And that's a big thing for you. And so having those pregenerated characters, pre written adventures, making it as easy as possible for people to just be able to get in and play. and not have to worry about, like, needing to learn every single rule and all of that information. The project that he's a he's a, he's a, a accessibility consultant, basically. He's worked on, like, Haldore, you know, for for critical role. And and Cobble presses new games. He's very, very good at what he does. So we've we've got all out on this one. Sorry? Chris Hopper. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome that you have. But he's got incredible kind of, like, experience with accessibility. So he'll be able to do, you know, like, you know, he read us off and the different considerations digitally. Mhmm. And then Emily who's doing the layout will be able to like, you know, like, color coded, like, along the page edges, the shutter, and, like, making sure the interior layouts, like, and the fonts are really clear and kind of, accessible. Oh, that's perfect. And, actually, the color coded, like, being able to have color coding within a book like that is really, really useful. I only have 1, maybe, like, one book I wanna say that has that, and it's something I always enjoy when I pick it up because I'm like, alright. I know that the purple section is the GM stuff. And then -- Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And then so it makes it a lot easier when I'm just looking at the book and I'm flipping the pages. I'm like, okay. I know when to stop here because this is the information that I need. So that's -- Our last release Dragonows that had that effect. So, basically, it's got 4 different, 4 different suits for the cards sections. Mhmm. So they're they're represented by different colors. Oh, that's so cute. So easy to find spades straight away. Oh, that's so that's so so, again, so easy to flow through because that's always -- Mhmm. you know, whenever you run a game or even if you're playing it, but usually I think probably more so for game runners, It's always it's always a interesting time when you're trying to search very quickly for a rule or a section just to reference it. while you play. Having that color coding makes it so much easier. Yeah. And hyperlinks are great as well on on the on the yes. Chatter hyperlinks are great. Makes makes my life so much easier. Yeah. Well, no, I'm not an expert on accessibility. I worked with both disabled community my whole my whole adult life, actually, but my daughter's disabled as well. she got a visual impairment, but, so I I'm very, very passionate about it, but I was never an expert, really. Mhmm. Until I start I started exploring it with role playing games. And now I'm trying to learn more, and I'm sure I'll learn a ton from Chris, this process. over the next 6 months, which will be, wonderful for me in terms of, how I approach game design, actually. Yeah. That's amazing. I love that you I I mean, that you're open and honest. Like, yeah, I'm not an expert about it, but you do -- Oh, no. No. We're not. No. I love it. I mean, just the -- Yeah. -- just the openness for learning more and expanding your knowledge and all of that, I think is fantastic, and I admire that. I think a lot of it is to do with intention. I think if your intentions are good and you want to learn and you want to kind of, like, improve all the time, I think people do know that. I think people appreciate that as well. I think I'm being open honest about stuff is good as well, you know. like, for instance in sprouts. Right? we did so much work with the deaf community and my friends in the community in terms of accessibility, in terms of consultancy. not to swear to but the bloody game doesn't have an index. Oh, no. So that's that's exact that's a pure example. of of of of me fully focusing on on accessibility andclusivity, and then forgetting something such at heart and the principle of accessibility. So so there's there's gonna be another addition of that coming down the line. I mean, that but that's also, you know, people are human. too. You know, it's easy. It's a first game, right? Yeah. It's a first game. You know, like, it's gonna be so many mistakes. That's awesome. in it, but it's got no index. Oh, man. I I I mean, I just think that's it's it's just funny to think of, you know, how it's like all that work and and forget something as simple as an index. But Yep. There you go. Yeah. But it's awesome that you're gonna, like, go back and and redo it and so that you can -- Oh, yeah. Yeah. -- that mistake and all of that. Absolutely fantastic. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. You guys make amends. Yeah. Absolutely. And so getting back a bit more into the cryptid Creek stuff. Mhmm. So when it comes to, I guess, the -- encounters encrypted creaks. Is that usually something that's gonna be solved more through non violent options? or more so like combat encounters. I'm just curious, because I think that affects the tone of these types of games a lot, and I'm curious which way So there's no there's no there's no there's no there's no there's no injury, severe injury, or death in the game. So that discounts that within Brendawood Bay, you can die quite a lot. You know, your your old lady can be pushed off a cliff edge quite regularly because you're against, like, a really, really savage cult. basically, like like a lovecraftian type cult. Mhmm. we're in our game. It's just like someone's like I say, like, the Stay safe off marshmallow man or or some some some, like, it's not meant to be comical necessarily, and we have got a section a game about tone. Mhmm. So because it involves a curse, you can go anything from, like, very lighthearted, kind of quirky, like, something like the Hilda series or something very, very dark, like, in, like, once through the week sessions -- Mhmm. But-- Yeah. Like that flexibility. Yeah. Also, like, your commission 60 is a is an opportunity to have a conversation with the players and the group to say, like, what do you not want to see, you know, lines available? we have in place within this game as well. Very nice. decide whether you want to see you don't wanna see anyone harmed or you don't want any sort of, like, death within within the townsfolk or anything like that. Mhmm. You know, and things like peep people that, you know, hate the idea of, like, sickness and disease as well, and that and that's quite prevalent in cursive. So, like, avoid that as well, you know, if you wish to. So anything could be skipped around, and then basically, so so we're we're more about intense situations or kind of like, peril. know, students that are Paris. Kinda, you weren't given to bars against any kind of like creature. Like, the stinks spirit from, like, spirits away. It could be something. Isn't it? Like, this this this, like, combination of all the sewage in the river. Mhmm. type thing as an example, and they kind of, like, you can you kind of happen to to cut keep people from being ill, you know, trying to keep it or trying to clear it out with, like, you know, hoses and things. Anything can happen. I love that. It's completely down to the to the to to play as a navigator, kind of, kind of, like, expand this narrative and this kind of, like, fiction. But, yeah, no kind of necessarily call that. Okay. I I love that, and I love how it can also be, like, whatever creative solutions and creative ways to get around these as well is -- Oh, yeah. -- almost like the I mean, I shouldn't say the default, but, like, that's -- Encourages role playing. Right? Encourages like inventiveness. and and also encourages which I like in games more than anything. I like art games. I like comedy. I like when it becomes a laugh fest. Mhmm. You know, like a Google fest. I love that when it even if it's in a serious dungeon dragons, like, session or something, like, where everyone starts laughing about something, it's brilliant, where you get some really quirky MPC. Of course. I think those are always the best ones. Yeah. We really we really wanna encourage that in this game. you know, it doesn't have to be comedic at all. Mhmm. But but there's gonna be it's gonna be quirky. At the very, very least, it's gonna be quirky. That's amazing. And actually, I'm I'm curious and if you would like to share, I I'm assuming that you've done quite a bit of playtesting, for, cryptid Creeks? Not a huge amount. We've done a few sessions Mhmm. It's actually being played right now, spoilers, because I have to say it now because this won't come out till we launch. girls run these worlds are actually doing an actual play of it now. Oh, that's fun. So that and it's it's gonna how to flex a how to play series. Mhmm. So that's gonna be quite interesting. Yeah. No. I I act that's gonna be insanely interesting to see. And so, I'm I'm curious. There's a lot of the play testing going to happen when the kick starter is kind of up and fulfilled and while you're finishing up the game? So except the we we finished the ASH can on 15th, which is which is Tuesday. But, yeah, Tuesday from now. and then we're gonna send the ASH can version out to every bit Oh, absolutely. Like, shoot it off to every 100 emails or something. Mhmm. Or anyone that you you know, we can send it off to you as you wanna have a little go on it. Yeah. I mean, I'd love to. Yeah. Exactly. So so so way of gonna be your way of getting feedback. So we're gonna send can now and then get feedback and how how people are finding it. How it's not balanced. It's it's not gonna be fully balanced yet. But but the the thing is the call the game's already done. the core of the games there. It's about fleshing it out, really, and adding content and adding inspirational content for for the navigator. Okay. That's actually amazing. I'm I'm just curious because I haven't, talked to too many, like, really I haven't talked to too many, like, large kick startering projects or anything like that. And so -- Yeah. -- I'm I'm always curious of the process, you know, how how much do you complete before you do you start playtesting? How much playtesting do you do and all those different steps? So that's that's really interesting to hear, and yes, I'm definitely down to if you wanna send the ASH can, I I would be. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna go send it off. So I've I'm gonna put it on Twitter and and and various social medias and this will tell, like, who wants to give us a go. Oh, perfect. I can -- Yeah. I'll I'll I'll I'll bully my group into planes. Yeah. That'll be awesome. It'd be so good to get some feedback and some, like, even some video. It's really, it'd be so cool. Oh, absolutely. And then, Yes. I said-- Hi. So instead of doing an end that we're gonna be doing this kind of mid episode section with the promo here because Let's try something new. If you hate it, let me know. If you like it, let me know. To start it all off, hi. I hope that you are enjoying the RPG Govelin so far in this episode about cryptid Creek, I think it's just really, really adorable, and I can't wait for it to come out on Kickstarter, which again, is going to be on September 5th. So please make sure to check-in the description of this episode for a link to the Kickstarter page, or you can search cryptid creeks on Kickstarter and find it easily. Again, this is gonna be coming out on September 5th so you're not gonna be able to actually pledge for the game until September 5th, but you can set up to be notified when it does come out. If you're enjoying the RPG goblins, so far, please make sure to leave a review for us wherever you listen to your podcasts because it means the absolute world to me, any little bit of support this podcast get. mix my day, and it helps keep me going because, god, I love making this show, and I love talking about games, and I wanna do it more. and also make sure to follow the RPG goblin wherever you listen to it too because it you get notified when episodes come out, and it's great. And finally, before we roll our promo, which is gonna be for the big campaign podcast, which is absolutely fantastic. I've had Jeff on here before to talk about Path Finder First Edition, and his podcast is so, so very cool. And I love the concept of it so much, and so we're gonna be listening to that in a moment here. But first, I wanna say, hey, the next episode of the RPG Gavilan will be coming out September 8th, and it's going to be a TTRPG topic episode where, I bring on Zachariah once again, to talk all about choosing your next game. So if you've been playing a long term campaign for a while now and it just wrapped up, or you're playing short games and you're just looking for something new, where you talk all about how to choose the next game for you and how to pick it so that the next game that you're gonna be playing is gonna be awesome, and everyone's gonna be on board for it. So that is what the next episode is gonna be about. And, again, that's gonna be coming out September 8. And so I can't wait for that to come out. It's gonna be fantastic, and I think that is the end of this mid bit here. Let's get into the promo. Hey, everybody. My name is Jeff, and I run the Big Campaign Stories podcast. Our story focuses on four people where at a repo company, trying to keep afloat among the corporate dystopian crushing debt. The world is one that we have been playing in and working on for a long time. The current homebrew setting is played with Pathfinder First Edition rules, but with more of a modern feel to it, think something like Blade Runner or Snow Crash. But with magic, we try to release every Thursday, and when we cannot, we come up with small side episodes focusing on each character to help expand the world and lower. So if you like greasy breakfasts, people trying to pay bills and the occasional lovecrafty and monster, give us a listen. Alright. Thanks. Yeah. That'd be awesome. Yeah. It'd be so good to get some feedback and some, like, even some video. It's rewarding. We're so cool. Oh, absolutely. And then, Yeah. So so my process differs, but ideally, in my in my ideal world, I'd have, like, 80 to 90% of the game complete, including all the images. So Dragon Dow, so when we went to Kickstarter was completely finished, completely just apart, a couple of pieces of art on the playing card. Mhmm. But that meant that the fulfillment's, like, 2 months maximum. Oh, yeah. That's my bad. It's a film which is wonderful for backers. took me a year and year and 2 months. So, and and we launched a Kickstarter with about 10% 15% of it done. Mhmm. So that's a very but that creates a lot of kind of, difficulties for the creator thing, really, pressure, I think is the word. Yeah. For sure. So so cryptic creaks is is probably 50 to 60 complete in terms of the system, in terms of the R assets. in terms of team dynamic, all these things. so do that because it'll take about 6 months to finish. Mhmm. Yeah. That's that's not bad. And I that's really interesting to hear that process as well because I've definitely seen quite a few kickstarted that are, like, They have the basic concept of the game, like, figured out, but they have no work on actually writing it yet. And that ends up I think it's, urban shadow second edition is -- Mhmm. -- but 2 month or not 2 months, 2 years or something like that. since -- It's not. Is it? I I think so. It's at least a year. Oh, I think I think because I remember I remember saying it was introduced to Kickstarter. It was like a game there was a video game called, oh, it's a space game, basically. It's one of the biggest kick stars ever. Basically, I can't remember exactly what it's called, but, basically, it's been in limit for, like, a 12 years or something. Oh, wow. So and they're still collecting pre orders for for the ships that you're gonna gain. Darcism Darcism, basically. I mean, like, I don't you know, I think part of it is, like, you know, mistakes with planning and also some-- Yeah. -- outside forces can can affect what, you know, how how well you can get everything completed. But it's it's -- -- a couple of facts to it. Yes. A couple of facts to it. Right? One of them. Yeah. is their feature creep. In other words, when we lost INSPRA, on a grand, a £1000. Right? And and my brother and my friend who were kind of launching it with me, We didn't think for in a million years, we'd make a £1000. Mhmm. Right? And it made 30,000. Right? Oh, wow. mean, congrats. So yeah. Amazing. Amazing. But inevitably, because it hit all those stretch goals, It kind of expanded project beyond my initial scope. Mhmm. So therefore, it took a lot longer to produce, obviously. because you're adding stuff and you're you're you're you're bringing different team members on board. Yeah. For sure. So that answers the timeline. -- the thing that changes everything is is your is your status with it as a designer. Now my status design when it's in Spras, was in a part time job, earning no money at all with 2 children. my status now is a form game. I can afford to have something 50 or 60% finished. Whereas back then, if I was to re release a game, I was in the same state as I would I would make sure it's finished before it launched a crowd fund. Mhmm. Yeah. That's -- Does that make sense? Yeah. No. That makes a lot of sense, and I think that's something it'd be it'd be interesting because that's something at least for me. I don't feel like a lot of people talk about is like the plan behind making a Kickstarter. And I think a lot of people go in with expectations or plans that end up backfiring. or putting you in a worse situation where you're not prepared like that. So it's interesting to hear kind of your experience with it and the approach that you've taken to make it easier on yourself. Yeah. And on the people do that. I don't think the funds good for everyone. I don't think I think people are so tempted because they hear buzzwords about it. But the actual the actual month for fundraising is is incredibly stressful. Oh, I bet. -- fulfillment is even more stressful. and and also it feels like some people go on there as a to use it as an advertisement. It's not really what it's for. It's forward to it's for it's in it's made to it in order for you to put a bit of affinity up around something and and have the funds to producing as you invent. Yep. So it's not for everyone. I think people people mis misinterpret what it's for. and that's a bit of a shame, and they they end up hitting a barrier, I think. Yeah. That is very, very unfortunate. And I hope that I hope that more people do put into consideration their intent with the kick starter before doing it because it does end up being so much more work than you think. So -- Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Let's hope that people even just having more information out there, being more honest about it, too, definitely helps. Yeah. I mean, I I'm a I'm a consultant, crowd fun consultant. That's what that's what I kinda would do as as a sort of, like, side hobby. Oh, that's actually true. I found it really. I found it really for fitting because I actually love doing Kickstars. I actually love setting the picture up. I love working out the little dynamics of it, like, you know, juicing the videos, all these things I love it. And, and I've I've I've worked with other people now, and I've had 3 clients. It's been really, really good. And they they've been they're funding and and doing well. and it's very inexpensive. I don't I don't charge much either. It's just almost like just like a bit of a fun thing to do on the side. Yeah. It's It's something that you have fun with that makes you happy. So -- Yeah. Exactly. -- it's so cool to and it's a lot of learning experience, especially in the job that you're in with being a game designer and and publisher and all of that. It gives you experience, and it gives you, you learn a lot from it too. And you learn a lot. Yeah. Yeah. You learn what not to do and what to do. And -- I mean, that's that's the best thing. Stick the best for you, really. Mhmm. I mean, it was so, so messed up in sprawls, like, so many, not just an index missing. There was there's so much so much over promising, which which made me think about future projects and like, what you offer and what you kind of, like, want in fulfillment. Mhmm. And again, people just don't realize. People put their even put their goal at the wrong amount you know, even a simple thing like that can railroad you. That's so interesting. Man, I I I just find this completely fascinating. And I I I I mean, personally, I would love to keep talking about this, but I think that we should probably -- Yeah. and a bit more on track, but I just find that absolutely fascinating to hear about and thank you for sharing, as well, because not a lot of people feel comfortable doing that. So I appreciate you. No worries. I I I'm all for transparency. Absolutely. Love it. And so I'm getting a back, getting back into cryptid Creeks. I think we're, I'd like to cover a little bit about the navigator stuff. Like like we covered earlier, it's pretty low prep, especially on the navigator side. though I'd like to discuss What is the role of the navigator within this game? Cause I think different games, the role of whoever's running it can differ depending on the setting and the, basic idea for the game and what stories it's good at. What is the role of the navigator in this game? Let me read you the the introduction to navigate a section. So, your main purpose in the game is to guide your players who are sitting as the attacker's cursed object. There are 3 elements you'll be focusing on. one presenting the Creek characters and cryptives as part of a genuine community. Thank you. 2, bringing drama to the game through the sprink herd and its impact on the townsfolk townsfolk, and 3 planting clues to the cursed object for your plate on cover. That's basically the the the triple kind of, approach. I like that. And that's basically all you need to do. That's basically So you're so like any role playing game, you're you're kind of representing the characters and the kind of community, you're you're creating drama which you have to do as a as a as a, you know, as the as the running game. Mhmm. because there's no big or poor narrative without a a bit of a tense. Tensity. Of course. And then, plant the clues. I love that. It's so Wakenly simple. It's amazing. Like, I I can't get over it. Yeah. I know. There's a lot there's a lot there's a lot you can go you can go into as an aggregate. So if so things like like a breakdown of this basic moves and how the players might use them, if that makes sense, and and a break, like, a deep dive into the matches and the special moves. so that you could before we if you read all this material, then you'll be prepped to start off very quickly to dive in sessions for free because you can anticipate Yeah. I love that. And that actually kinda reminds me of, I mean, I know it's for sure in in monster of the week where it does that same breakdown of all the basic moves. And it's like, you know, here's here's ways they can use them, and here's ways that you can even use them against the players if if it's hard. if they fail and stuff like that. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. But but there's but but in most of the week, which we've got in this as well, is another powered by the apocalypse kind of trend is is -- Yes. -- is the is also the the navigate or the or the, the key broadly, yeah, keeper. Mhmm. The keeper can do actions on a on a minor 6 or less role for the players. Yes. So we've got a list of their reactions. We've got a list of their principles. So, like, so, like, one of the principles is reveal the mystery through play. bring the creek to life, personify the curse, make the world, otherworldly, and create opportunities for the crew move. You know, I said we said about it can become quite action heavy. So you want the navigator kinda go, well, maybe it should go to your boat now or maybe it should travel to this other town. And then it gives an opportunity to have when they're on the water then. Oh, that's so good. You know, like, the the navigate is literally navigating the session to to be film more balanced, I suppose. Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, that's usually the role of the GM. You know, you are At at least in my in my opinion, I always love using that role more as a way to help guide a story. versus here's all of the things that happen, and that's why I love powered by the apocalypse, like its take on that role. because having the, principles is super, super important to kind of understand what you're supposed to be doing to help create the atmosphere and create the opportunities for this story. you know, because it's like that young adult story and that coming to age and all of that, it's important to have those moments where they're just by themselves talking and all of that. And so having that in the principles helps push that even for, even further, And when you're playing the game, you're gonna look at that and be like, oh, maybe it's time for maybe it's time for a crew move. Like, maybe it's time for them to just sit down and talk. And I I love how it just all fits together. It's like a puzzle. Exactly. Exactly. It's build it is building a puzzle, yeah, as as a group. everyone is building it. Yeah. And some of the some of the reactions so, like, some reactions are give scouts misfortune, place a scout in a Paris situation, separate the crew, break their pocket knife, damage their bow charge their clubhouse. Oh, no. have an official show up, introduce a meddling local, or a rival crew, make the earrings troublesome, have the peddler appear, and escalate the curse. Yeah. No. Those are so straightforward. Like, you know what you're supposed to do? Yeah. But but but be it's not my case, Jess, as to what those things will be within that curse run, but we'll have any kind of, like, these ideas, you know, this kind of, like, how you can make how can you create more tension within the sessions? How can you kind of, like, put cuts against it? How can you kind of, lead to interesting sort of like spikes in the in the fiction. Mhmm. Yeah. It's it's just a little bit of guidance in in obstacles. You can bring in. I love that a lot. And, actually, I'm I'm curious with the they're not the, the misfortunes. Are those, like, actual set ones that are in the game? Like, is there certain ones like this one does this? No. So so so so say say, like, a car or say that someone's one of the kids kind of, like, nearly got hit by a car and, like, left over the bonnet or something, and they think a bit of a bruising, then you'd have a you'd have a conditional you'd have misfortunes on your physical, your, sorry, your, athletic staff, say. Mhmm. or say you kind of, like, you get drunk up, a baby sham up, art, or something, and you kind of, you you're you're you're swaths that would take misfortune possibly because the way you're interacting with others. I see. So it's it's dependent on whatever you do, and then it affects just a step that would relate to that. So it's just one it's one of the -- basically. So but it's it's the one that you use the most to give them a kind of disadvantage on their kind of, like, Thereabouts. I like it. Okay. Cool. Cool. Yeah. I just wanna I I was curious if it was something specific or so -- Yeah. -- I I think that's Fantastic. Is there a set amount of time that those usually last, or is there a way that they're I mean, I know that you said when they do the crew move, they can Yeah. So there's loads of waste to clean them. So you you're gonna get a lot, but you're also gonna be there's some the batches clear them. Some of them the medic the medic, especially load of water to reduce them. one thing I haven't is told you about is is if you get 4 missed fortunes, you you you develop a knot. Now the knots are kind of like these stages you go through where the cusses start to impact on you. Oh. Oh. So, yeah, so so these these these misfortunes actually have a build a a building mechanic where they they kind of they they create they create, a lot of tension within your character. Mhmm. So the when the first lot of titans, you kind of experienced nightmares, themed around the curse, And you remove 1 less most fortune at the clubhouse, in the second knot times, you, you get irritating confrontation with the crew. you perform the crew move using your lowest strength. Oh. and when the final lock titans, you are consumed by the curtain tries to actively sabotage accrues attempts to find the cook. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah, Sue. And the voice also begins to invade your mind. Oh, no. Okay. That's terrible. Yeah. That's really bad. But it would take a lot to get to that point. So you're talking about, 8. 16, no, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, miss fortunes, uncontested, basically. Yeah. Now So it's unlikely you it's unlikely you've got there, but if you're playing over months sessions, it's got it could be could happen. Oh, no. That's actually really interesting, though, is that almost a little bit of that corruption. Like, it's it's just getting to you and it's getting oh. Exactly. Yeah. So will it does the curse will affect the townsfolk? Definitely. It will affect the townsfolk, whether whether, like, in a focused way or whether, like, off or at offhand. But it kind of, but it's it should also affect the players, definitely, even though they're more they're more attuned to central. That's so cool. I like that a lot. That's a really cool way to just add. because, yeah, the players are also people. Like, they're also people that live in the town. it makes sense. And it -- Just teenagers. And it's like, you know, it makes sense, and it makes them like, yeah, they are are special in the way that they are figuring this out, but they're also still a normal person. And it -- Mhmm.-- it still lets them feel it still lets them feel almost like powerless, but they still have agency. Like, you can still be I can buy these things. That's really change just changes their their approach to role playing. Basically, that's what it does. Yeah. And that too. You get to introduce some really interesting role playing opportunities as well. Yep. That can be cleared as well by certain characters. So Yeah. And so let me not necessarily permanent. yeah, letting it be cleared is also really cool, especially if, like, you could do it through even, like, using some of the cryptids or or supernatural things as well. Like, That would also be interesting. Exactly. Exactly. So so cool. I love it so much. Thank you. Oh, that sounds awesome. -- as you can probably tell. Yeah. It's very clear, and I I don't blame you because this sounds Again, amazing, and I'm excited for it. And I think I'm trying to think if they're or some other things. I have, like, I have 2 more questions for sure that I would like to ask, but that's kind of coming to the end bit. Is there anything else that we haven't touched upon that we should before we start closing out? I don't think so because I think it's the the dash cam will be ready soon, and we'll send that out to everyone, and then we'll let people sort of discover the rest of the mechanics and and kind of even start maybe even formulating their own curses, which should be so cool. Yes. I bet I bet that's also exciting for you for people to get their hands on, you know, this content, this same, and be able to make it their own. I've really want I've really wanted to design something that people will actively play because I have in that most top people they make a role playing game, and it's not played by many people. People pick it up or buy it and it goes on the shelf. And, unless it's kind of like in the in the conversation nationally or Internationally -- Mhmm. -- then I don't know where it wins loads of awards. Is that it? people a readily player that often, unless they're very passionate about something. Mhmm. I want this to be much more accessible in terms-- in the range. in content and and making it lice up in license, you know, like, creative commons. Mhmm. And people making that, you know, like, the whole curses and characters and scouts, different locations, you know, different cultures, Mhmm. And I just wanted to expand that way naturally, and, oh, godly, that'd be wonderful if I could do some, like, jams on on on each. io and things. Yeah. That would be amazing. I I love that. That's yeah. I particularly want scout groups and summer camps to be playing it. That's kind of what I'm aiming for. That would be so cute. Yeah. I mean, it'd be so good to get feedback from them and get some photos and, you know, like, with the book and stuff. Mhmm. You know, with that. you know, their their their whole summer summer camp experience is is involved with this game. You know? For sure. I think that would be amazing to see. And that would also just be a really fun, like, activity to do over, like, a summertime. I mean, I I expect a lot of groups and In fact, some accounts, especially some accounts do do role in games, but I'm sure that's part of it. That must be part of it. Like, it it it would just make sense. You know, fun group activity, work together, problem solving, all of that. Like, you make fun. I mean, I'm almost certain that, like, 78% of them do role playing games, but it's it's nice to have a role playing game. It's like summer camp and, like, scouts and and, like, young people. For sure. I'm sorry. Just saw the message from Ben in the jet and maybe, have. but, yeah, no, that's that's amazing. And I really hope that people do play it like that because I I wish I was in a summer camp and could play this. Yeah. We don't we we don't have we haven't had them until recently in in the UK, really. Mhmm. There's not a thing that we did. But, I mean, I'm a 100% gonna run my own one with this game. I mean, how could that be? Yeah. mean, why don't we do just, like, a TTRPG summer camp? Like, a bunch of people? We should do that. We should definitely do that. We should. Like, that that would be just because I know that, there's like, I can't remember exactly what it is, but, like, it's an event where they run DND in, like, an old castle. And, I know there's there's a lot of people that do, like, specialized things like that, and I just think that's a really fun Like vacation idea? Like Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm actually doing that next year. We're doing we're doing that. We're doing a, yeah, we're doing a Castle experience. Oh, I hope that's a great time because they look amazing. In Wales. That's gonna be really good fun. And we're also doing a, a writing retreat for all my sort of mutuals in the UK, in, hopefully, in Scotland. Oh, man. I hope that those go amazing because, again, that just sounds like Yeah. Thanks. Because this is such a, you know, this Hobby in this, you know, I I'm community, with the TTRPGs is so Big, and there's so many people, and it's so important to build that community up even more. You know, work with people like, doing, like, a writing, like, a writing getaway. Like, a bunch of you guys are just gonna go out and write and doing something like the castle thing where you can invite people and that could even, like, meetups and conventions, stuff like that is always I I think those are so important because this is So community based that the more people just get entrenched in it and learn every and, like, meet everyone and Just learn even more. I think it just benefits the entire space. Yeah. For sure. For sure. I've also I'm also very, very being now to make friends in the community in real life, like, very key, especially with the way social media is going. Mhmm. Like, and the amount of, Oh, no. We won't go into that now. It's just it could be the the content for a whole other interview, but, basically, I I'm very, very, very keen, especially next year. into, like, build from very close relationships. I've already started to build them through conventions in the UK. I wanna get head over to the US next year. So, I'm trying to meet some people in real life. So that would be amazing. already in contact with and, and establish that and can you keep it going? And then I wanna really boost those people a lot. I really wanna make sure there's not to not to create a click or an an, you know, anything like that, but just make sure that they're supported. Yeah. Get their endeavors. I mean, it's just, you know, you're you're building those relationships and naturally you want to see those people succeed. And so I think it's it's so I think it's amazing, and that's actually something I'm really excited about as well, is to start making some some of those connections in person. since this has been my 1st, like, year really within the TTRPG space, and I've met so many amazing people so far through this podcast. And I can't wait to be able to do something like Jencon or or those types of events and be able to see them in person and be like, hey. I know you. Exactly. That's awesome. I I love that for you, though, and I I Can't wait for the future. Yeah. Same. I'm really excited. Amazing. So I think that we're going to close this up soon then. And I have two questions. The first one being, obviously, you don't, you can answer this as much as you would like. I'm just curious if there would be an answer. do you have any future plans beyond cryptid creeks, like in the started, like, fulfilling that. Do you have any future plans on expanding it? Scripts and creaks specifically. Oh, yeah. So I'll give you a Boiler. So, basically, as part of the kick stars, you probably see on the preview, there's, our stretch goals as an anthology, which has got, incredible team on it. that's that's some of the who's who are basically family friendly RPGs. Mhmm. So we got 10 writers for that. Hopefully, we'll unlock that. But this is gonna lead into cryptid Cities, which is gonna be a kind of urban version of this game. it's gonna be set around like an urbanized area, and it's gonna have like different types of watchers. They're gonna be like giant rats or an urban of foxes and things, raccoons. That's so cool. So it's gonna come from that. And the curse is gonna be very different because it's gonna I'm not I won't I won't give spoilers away, but the curse it manifests in a very different way. Oh, I'm obsessed. But, yeah, it's gonna be more focused on no. I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not gonna look at this. You are fine. I think you've already said I think you've already said plenty. That Yeah. So, yeah, so that's the plans for cre Creeks. And then, we've got so many games coming out, next year. We've got ARCO 0, which is basically, Lancer meets, Hades, the video game. So it's like it's based on kind of like 80 science fiction cones. like, Ulysses 31 and, like, Jason, the whale warriors and things like that. That sounds really cool. That's gonna be cool. I'm working with Kat the law mistress on that. She's she's co designing. So she's an amazing designer and writer and mythologist. And we've got ton of solo games coming out. So, like, old Festors is about, a community, bring a, a carnival parade for a sort of, like, a deity. and that's the whole game. You just create this, like, dance and, like, and, like, offerings and kind of, like, music. And the other one's called bow, which is a a gentleman came and came about a a a lone sailor circumnavigating an ocean. And finally, we've got under us, which is the 3rd game in the sign language, trilogy. Oh. Set -- That's -- -- on the underworld of the setting, basically. So it's like a it's like a dungeon crawl. Oh, that's fun. Oh, god. That sounds so cool. I love how that like -- -- pen dragons, isn't it? You don't play pen dragons. You play The you play the friends of the of the realm. So you play the sort of, like, creatures. That's adorable. I love it. I love that, like, little series, and I love that that's become, like, you know, little universe and all of that. That's so cool. We do so happy. We've got a lot going on. It's gonna be some some cool stuff. Yeah. I can't wait to see, and everyone who's saying, I hope that you can't wait to see either because where can people find you so that they can see all of this progress and see what is being worked on and what is coming out. Yeah. So I'm we're hatchings games where you may find all our content, basically, on our website at www hatchlingsgames.co.uk. I'm hatchling DM, on most social media. I'm on prevalent on Twitter, and, we've got a wonderful discord. We've got a really great community over there. 600 and something for members. That's amazing. And, they're the main areas that you can find me. So if you go to the website, we've also got a a side, a business called Tattered Bear, which provide, basically support for a family friendly TTRPG Creators, publishers, designers, we can cover anything from marketing to, like, project promotion, project creation, we do things like handshakes. We do like streams on our on our Twitch stream. So, basically, all about helping people establish their family friendly game. That is so cool. I love I love that also focus that you guys have with those family friendly games, kid friendly, all of that. It's really, really awesome to see. Thanks. I appreciate that. As we you've started off with that. sort of, like, idea and that we we've never strayed from it. So -- Mhmm. Yeah. It's it's a it's a perfect focus. It really is. That's really amazing. Yeah. Because I think it's part of the future. I think I think they will start to come more and more prevalent. I think, kids are getting more and more into role playing, and it's it's so beneficial for young people. But it is without a doubt the most beneficial hobby in the world. If you break it down. I mean, just like the social skills and the socialate socialization you learn and have alone, is -- Yeah. -- like, that's so important, especially, I've been homeschooled pretty much all my life. And so RPGs have actually been a huge thing with making friends and and learning, social skills and and meeting people and all kinds of stuff like that. And so I I think it is incredibly important. So I love that. Again, I love that focus. because it it does mean so much. I'm super passionate about I'm super passionate about getting into young people. Yeah. I I I can definitely see that with with your games. It's amazing. But, yeah, I think we are then at the last question here, which is kind of another one that I am just curious of what the answer is because I think there's so many things that it could be. But what are you the most excited about with crypted creeks? That's a good one. What am I most excited about? I think it's just a 100% what people come up with, as a group, as a group of players. I think I'm so curious to see how the how the fiction and the narrative of each curse will will sort of play out. I think I think it's because it's so focused on kind of collaborative storytelling that I wanna see if it has impact on on a variety and and kind of the the the different kind of stories that are told through it. Yeah. I think that's the main thing. nothing nothing's it's like like an overall feeling rather than kind of like something specific about it. Whereas in spras, I could say that in spras was more about how how learned sign language learned through the system, obviously. That was what I was most excited about. And, but this is more kind of like just a broad kind of feeling of of what will be created through it. Mhmm. Yeah. I think that is amazing, though, because to be that excited about, like, basically the entirety of everything, like, involved in this game, I bet is, like, such a good feeling too. Like, this is-- It is actually. Yeah. problem. The creativity behind it, I I I wanna see what what what comes creatively around it. Like, just as I've learned creatively through the system it's based upon, I want people to to kind of expand the the law and the and the kind of, like, the fiction around the game. also, the art is gonna be absolutely kick out of this. like, unbelievable. I do see it in Nashville and Fernando. They're just gonna produce some of the most stunning kind of, like, appealing art. Like, like, it's almost like an animated series, it would look like, by the end of it. Oh, I can't wait. I mean, just the art on the preview, like, Kickstarter page, I've absolutely been enjoying looking through and seeing it all. Like, it's just such a pleasing style too. Like, the colors are gorgeous and just like, they everything looks like. It's like cozy. Right? It's like -- Yeah. Spooky co it's the only way I can describe it. But I think that's really but it really appeals to me. Spooky cozy. Yeah. My new favorite genres. Spoozy. Spoozy. Spoozy. Spoozy. You had it at first? I love spoozy games. amazing. I mean, I think that is, like, a real genre, though, because that gets combined so much spooky and cozy. Spoozy. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. Excuse me there. Like, yeah. the goonies, all these things, like the ground sea falls, all the things that's inspired by, they're very they're very much that. Goose sponsors even cozy, really? Yeah. It's Goosebumps is I haven't seen Goosebumps in so long. I haven't read Goosebumps in so long, but that just makes me want to now. Yeah. And that's actually -- I mean, we never know. We might get the we might get the license. We might get the license after we've we've launched this thing. That would be -- -- response version. That would be wildly cool. That would be amazing. Uh-huh. That's super -- -- can involve some of the some of the passes from, like, those books. Mhmm. Yeah. I can even see the inspiration even for, like, the navigators, like, taking inspiration from stuff like the Goosebumps books. Oh, yeah. Like, that would be fantastic tool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would also be so awesome as well because I've seen a lot of, a lot of, TTRPG, publishing companies getting licenses to these game, that games to these, pieces of media. just like the Walking Dead. I know, there's a podcast, but is it? Yeah. Something Nightenvale. I don't remember what the full name is. I know there's been the alien RPG, that alone. So I think that's just amazing to see even if that happens. So go, ghostbumps Goosebumps would be so cool. Yeah. It would be very cool. but what I really want is Hilda Hilda the the the the the license to Hilda. I'm obsessed with that series. And if I I think it would make such a good RPG. I've I forget if I somehow can Bence Luke Pearson to keep give us the license. I'm gonna keep, thank you. But next thing, we might we might have to, supposedly, come to actually approach him and and Sony who own the who own the license, maybe say can we can we make an RPG? Come on. Yeah. That would be the Sparrow scouts would be awesome. That would be so cool. Well, I I hope that that does happen because that would be amazing to see. But Yeah. Like I said, I think that we are coming to the end, though. So thank you so much, Rich, for coming on and talking to me about cryptid Creeks, you are always welcome if you'd like to come back on to talk about any of your other games. just let me know because I would be so down. but I am so very excited for cryptid Creeks to come out. And can you please remind everyone again of, of when it's going to be coming out? Nope. September 5th. Not long as it was it a month away or 3 weeks away. Oh my god. 2 weeks away. Very soon. Yeah. the pre the pre re pre follow-up page has been live for a while. We got when you got nearly 2000 followers, so it's doing very, very well. Oh, that's so exciting. Yeah. I I this episode is definitely gonna be coming out beforehand. So -- Yeah. -- everyone may And I'll pop it on the I'll pop it on the Kickstarter page. Perfect. I, I mean, I appreciate you putting it there, and I'm definitely gonna make sure to share that around of when when it comes out as well. because, again, it's such a cool game, and I want everyone to at least take a look at it and hopefully buy it too. because it looks absolutely amazing, and I hope to get it myself when it comes out and maybe even the bundle that has all the games in it, because that would be amazing. But that would be Just all around amazing. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you everyone for listening. I hope that you had a fantastic time and that you learned all kinds of really cool things. And, yeah, I think that we are at the end. So thank you, Rich, and thank you very much. Thank you everyone for listening.