Shadowrun 2e - Where Fantasy Meets 80's Cyberpunk Edge!

We explore Shadowrun 2e in today's episode of The RPG Goblin! A old-school TTRPG that mixes high fantasy with cyberpunk that is set in the future! The technology is goofy and exactly what you would expect from a game from the 80's-90's guessing what technology would be like!

The game has extensive lore of the world that is perfect for everyone who loves to dig deep into TTRPG lore and world building! The game itself has heavy rules that supports a crazy world full of action and just straight up PUNK!

To talk about Shadowrun 2e (the best edition) I bring on Ben Pink FoHawk to explore this game with us! He is a huge lover of the 2nd edition especially since it holds a special place in his heart from when he was younger!

Find Pink FoHowk here:
https://pinkfohawk.podbean.com/

https://twitter.com/PinkFohawk

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClQR8Pn6lopqJwXGcSMtW0A

Let's hope to find Shadowrun 2e places soon!


Check out Cybertopia and get them to 1000 listens by the end of the year!
https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cybertopiaap/episodes/Cybertopia-AP-Trailer-1-e20pfc3

Transcript

0:00

Welcome everyone to the RPG Goblin, a TTRPG exploration podcast. I can speak. We are a podcast that makes it fun and easy to learn TTRPGs so that you're not intimidated and because there's so many awesome games out there. And on today's episode, we are going to be talking about shadow run, specifically shadow run 2nd edition. And I am really excited about this because I've heard about shadow run all over the place. But I'll be honest, I basically have no idea what this game is about, and that is why we have Ben here on tonight, who is the GM, the Pink Fauxhawk, actual play podcast. And, Ben, if you would like to give yourself a more formal introduction and tell everyone, I guess, what you do and where they can find you and all of that cool stuff. Go ahead. Oh, thank you, Willow. Hello. And, hello, everybody. Yeah. I'm Ben. I am the GM of Pink Fauxhopper, an actual play podcast, and we play, as was has been mentioned, Shadowrun 2nd edition. The best edition. And so, yeah, I I I've been we've been doing it for now. We have 2 seasons. Mhmm. We're extremely lazy. So we only have about 23 episodes up out of 2 seasons, and that's about a year and a half. But, it's a fun time. We we really lean into, And I know we'll get into this, but, Shadowrun was written in, like, the in, like, 1989. And so 2nd edition was written in at around 1991 with a lot of those eighties, That eighties attitude meant punk rock from that time, infused in it. And so we really lean into that in our podcast. We make sure, like, Everything is through that lens of, like, everything needs to feel like it's eighties and over the top action movie, and so it's a good time. That is a fantastic vibe. I love it. And so where can people find your podcast? You can't escape us. We are everywhere. We're on you could you know, just there's Pink Pho Aqua on every podcatcher. I guess they call them those podcast, services. And, we're on all the social things. We're on Twitter and YouTube, and, and we actually, again, we'll get into this more, but our YouTube channel, we've been doing a, a second edition book club. Oh, yeah. I actually saw that on, Spotify. When I was looking at your show, I'm like, oh, this looks really interesting. Audio version. Yeah. We did an audio version too because they're they get kinda long. Mhmm. But, but we have the videos as well There. So, yeah, you can catch us anywhere. Just search pink fauxhawk and, and then, you know, obviously, minimize any actual pink fauxhawks that come up in the images, and then You'll find us. Perfect. We're we're about we're about 3rd and 4th in line after all the actual pink faux hawks you'll see, And then you'll find us. Yeah. You'll you'll find us one way or another. Yeah. I love that. Oh my gosh. That is so good. And I think, honestly, like, I want to start off this episode. Sometimes I'll I'll do a little bit of, like, you know, talking back and forth with the person, like, you know, experiencing t t r p gs and stuff like that. But I am just so curious of what shadow run is. So I wanna just start this off of with, can you explain what shadow run is for me and everyone else listening? Because I am so insanely curious, and I've almost been like, this is the moment I've been waiting for, like, all of them. Like, alright. Let's let's see what this is, finally. I can't wait to let you down. I can't wait to let you down. No. I I I'm really excited that you I like I was telling you before we really started here, like, You don't know anything about Shadowrun, and that is so perfect. I just I love that. Like like, what a treat to, like, get a blank canvas to work with here. But, yes. In a nutshell, Shadowrun is a tabletop game system Mhmm. That was written in 1989, and it was sort of fusing cyberpunk. So what you would see in, like, blade runner or any you know, all those kinds of, the neuromancer. They took all these influences from these super seminal cyberpunk, you know, movies and books and, media. And then they were like, what if, like, you merge magic with that? So like this D and D with fantasy races and magic. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and and that's kind of what, What it is? It's just sort of this mix of cyberpunk with magic or with fantasy Mhmm. And set in the future. Oh, of course. As as, you know, as dreamed from the 1989 perspective. So the technology is hilarious. Like, it's all like, now we look back and go, this is ridiculous. Like, You know, there's, like, pocket, like, watch computers that are massive and all these cool things. But, you know, it The the thing that really reaches out. I mean, I'll show the book here in front of you that has the same cool I love it. The vibe of it is just so, Like, just that gritty punk feel, you know, and and and, and, like, low life High-tech is what they you know, the cyberpunk sort of mantra of, like, what it looks like what it looks like to, like, really slum In this future world with all this shiny new tech and stuff and, like, who let's tell the stories of these people that kinda live in the cracks. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. And, you know, added magic into that too, apparently. Yeah. Yeah. Well and, so I'd learned that recently. We've been doing our second edition book club, and what's really cool about that, I didn't I I kinda posted on Twitter. I was like, hey. Let's do a book club. We Read through this book together or whatever. I love that. And, like, all these people, like, flooded and be like, cool. I bought a book. And I was hoping someone else would do it. Like, I was like, I would join if someone started 1, and then everyone's like, what's when are you gonna start it? So I was like, oh my god. I got a podcast. I can't do this. So then, I kind of was pushing it off, pushing it off. And then Tom Dowd, who is cocreator of Shadowrun Mhmm. He wrote the 1st edition and the 2nd edition. Oh, that's so cool. And all and novels for Shadowrun and source books and all this stuff. He he friended me on Twitter, which first of all is like I felt like I died and went to heaven. But then he was like, I'm in, and he showed his picture of the first print shadow run. Oh, that's so cool. I was like, I gotta do this. I gotta do this now. And so through that, we've we he we've done 6, meetings so far, and we've just gone through different chapters of the book. But what I learned so just started going back again. What I learned from him was that they're writing this book in 1989. Mhmm. They wanted to make a cyberpunk book. It was like this this book. I don't know if you know, William Gibson. He he wrote Neuromancer. There's all these really cool cyberpunk novels he'd written. And you've mentioned Blade Runner earlier. Like, these movies and these books that were like, oh my god. Cyberpunk is so cool. What's make a cyberpunk TTRPG? Mhmm. They got to work. They wrote the whole they wrote out the bones of it. Mhmm. There it was gonna be called, Technomancer. Oh, fun. Yeah. And then the book Cyberpunk, like, the game the RPG game Cyberpunk hits the market. They they're like, oh, shit. Like, this this This you know, they just beat us, like, we're screwed. And then, Jordan Wiseman, who was sort of the owner of FASA at the time, the company that created Chateron, Had, like, this fever dream and, like, he was in Tokyo. He was, like, in Japan, and he had this, like, dream of elves on motorcycles, on Harleys. And he was like, I got it. Here's our pivot. Let's add magic. I love that. And so Shatterum was born. Like, they're Okay. How do we do this? And they just, like, merge it to make it different enough to, like Mhmm. You know, go on shelves at the same time as Cyberpunk. So it's kind of a cool, happy accident of, like Yeah. Oh my god. Your chocolate fell in my peanut butter. Your peanut butter fell in my chocolate. Now we got cyberpunk and fantasy together. It's pretty cool. No. I love that. And especially, like, I mean, I feel like any good game comes from, like, a fever dream. But Still welcome. Exactly. And it's really a good session. It comes from a fever any D and D session that, that this memorable comes from a fever dream. Yeah. Anything within this hobby, it's usually a fever dream. Yeah. No. I I love that. And even being able to, like, alright, you know, we still want to do this. What what what do we do to make it different? And kind of, you know, pushing and trying different ideas, like, yeah, let's let's see what we can do. Also, Richard, he Crash. Crash. Crash. He's doing his thing. But yeah. No. I I love that a lot, though, like because it's so easy to almost have that be like, oh, man. Because someone else just came out with the game just like this, Mhmm. We we can't do this at all and kind of almost giving up at that point, but still pushing forward, like, what can we do and coming up with that idea, like, put fantasy in it. You know? Especially since I feel like in the eighties, a lot of fantasy stuff went crazy as well. Like, you know, there's a lot of with that. Why not mix these elements together, see what happens. Absolutely fantastic. And so I had D and D as, like, the That was the mother of all of it. Then you've got the cyberpunk game is, like, let's slide right in between there. Pretty brilliant. No. That's a good spot to be in. Like, yeah, let's mix the Indian cyberpunk. What could go wrong? Yeah. Yeah. No. That's so good. And so, so I I I am curious of why specifically Shadowrun's 2nd edition out of, like, how many editions are there, and why specifically 2nd edition is the one that you have, like, obsessed with? I there if so anyone that knows, even if you just took a peek into, like, the Shadowrun subreddit, you would you would walk out of there like shell shocked, like, oh my god, The edition wars are are real. They're never I'm sure. And and basically, like, super brief rundown is that, Every edition sort of got a little more kinda like D and D, where, you know, obviously, they clarified rules. Mhmm. Mhmm. They added new rules. They did things to, sort of help help the game grow. Mhmm. And sense. So there are so to answer your question I'm sorry. I was about to go off on a big long thing. To answer your question, there are 6 editions of Shadowrun. Okay. Oh, awesome. There's there's also an an alternate Rule sets with Shadowrun Anarchy, which was for 5th edition. Okay. And Anarchy was sort of a rules, like, alternative rule system for For Shadowrun. Mhmm. Because they're kinda reading the writing on the wall that, like, I'm sure you've heard Shadowrun's very crunchy. Like, people are afraid to play it, we should make a lighter rule system for it. Which one? And so what's and and then to back up, what's really cool about Shadowrun is that, And we can get into the lore later. I'm trying to say how I say this. It it builds on itself. Mhmm. So the lore is, like, it Keeps up with our real time. Oh, actually, that's fun. Yeah. So so the 1st edition was set in 2050. Mhmm. And then the 2nd edition was released 3 years later, and it was set in 2053. Oh. And so things progress In real time in the game world. So every edition set in a different time period or in a future for the decade. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kinda cool too. Like, you can kinda the the game kind of evolves like our real world does. So fun. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. And so you can actually, like, keep up to date instead of having, like, chunky computer watch. It's where it's like, oh, yeah. Some people that was a real problem for. They were just, like, this is stupid. Like, we have wireless Internet and stuff, and I I feel like, why am I playing this future game where sense. I don't have I like to have. Internet doesn't exist. Yeah. Or I have a fax machine, you know, or a pager. It doesn't make any sense. But Very modern. Many of us, many of us love that about it. Like, that's that's what's so beautiful about it is it's like like, some to some of us, Cyberpunk is is very much entwined with that, you know, that eighties vibe of what the you know, this Future idea of transhumanism, you know, like, of Yeah. With Facebook. Merging with technology with what they thought the technology would become. Anyway, so you asked about why 2nd edition, and that's kind of that's one of the big reasons why Mhmm. Was that, like, to me, that is the heart the heart of Shadowrun. Like, the 3rd edition, kind of started to take that situation. It was a bit it was written about a decade later Mhmm. Than 2nd edition, and it was kind of, Or maybe it wasn't. May maybe it's 98. I'm trying to think. Maybe just 6 years later. But, Lots of years to remember. They were already making those changes, like Mhmm. Like, we should have wireless, You know, we should they were try they were starting to make things a little more like we should try to make this as not not realistic, but Mhmm. You know, closer to what would make sense when we think compute how computers work and stuff like that. And then 4th edition took that much further and was, like, let's let's really get more simulationist with things. Mhmm. And then 5th edition and 6th edition, like, kept up with that. When do you know when 6th edition came out? Just out of curiosity. So I have not been keeping super current with it. 6th edition came out, I wanna say it was, like, 20 oh, it was, like, 2021 or something? Oh, so right. 2020, recently. Maybe maybe it was prior to 2020. I'm not sure, but basically, without I'm not gonna put throw any shade, but when Cyberpunk 2077, the PC game was announced and released, and when that release date was coming, they also made Cyberpunk Red. Mhmm. And so, Shadowrun 6th edition came out at that time to sort of, like, try to hit that market at the same time. I gotcha. So that's sort of I I don't know exactly the right year that is, But that was when that happened. Like, that is interesting because I I think of it being, like, an older game. You know? And, obviously, even if, like, an older game game has many additions. Like, I I just don't think of it as one being that's still, like, releasing, like, in the current day. Oh, so it released in 2019, which So 2019. Okay. Feels strange because I remember when, like, cyberpunk, 27 or whatever the name of the game is. I've never played it. Yeah. I remember when that came out, and that's just concerning to me that it's been that long. The world ended Yeah. Between then and now. So It is true. I mean, that was a lot. So you're fine. Everyone thinks that. It's been, like, 2 decades since 2019. So true. Oh, lord. But yeah. No. That that's so they came out with a new edition kind of riding that train. And so 2nd edition, because you feel like that's sort of the heart of the game, and there's almost like that, you know, not even familiarity, but, like, that love for almost the corniness of the technology, like, where it was, like, you know, what they thought. Is, like, is there anything rules wise that makes you choose that over the others, or is are they pretty similar overall? Willow, I I get the feeling you've done this before, because you're nailing some so there's it's too the I love it. I've pretty steeple my fingers for this because Yes. I feel like, you know, it is a 2 the reason is twofold. Mhmm. There it's definitely that, like, there's that's the home that's like, That feels like home was Shatter Run to me because I grew up playing the Genesis game, and this and the 2nd edition was live when that game came out, and that's just sort of the feel of Shatter Run that I remember With Shutter Run. Yeah. But the rules and I have a bit I've I have a 20 minute version of what I'm gonna say on YouTube if anyone cares to see. But the rules, what sort of happened in a nutshell is that, like I said, they started to try to get more, realistic to, For lack of a better word, as they progress with additions and stuff. What really was happening was, you know, these players that were really into Shadowrun, we're really excited about Shadowrun. Of course, they loved it. They were like, this is amazing. What about this, this, this, this? Right? Like like, okay. You know, there's no I'm trying to think of, like, what what do I do with mages once they've played a long time? Is there a way to, like, grow them and expand how they you know, Their abilities and stuff like that. And so they would release these these, source books that, like, expanded on those rules for magic, for Rigorous. Whatever. Right? Like, every game kinda does that. Mhmm. Well, what happened was with 3rd edition, They took all that stuff from 2nd edition's source books, and they rolled all that into the core. Oh. So now Fun. All these sort of super advanced rules and stuff are now, like, The base game of Shadowrun. Mhmm. Whereas before, 2nd edition, it was a lot more, like, vague, like, just Simpler simpler. Mhmm. Still still a little more difficult than, like, a 5 e, but not so much more difficult. Like, just really kinda pretty Pretty streamlined. Mhmm. But you could add things in from source books. Then you have 3rd edition that's like, nope. That's the core game now. And then guess what? We're gonna keep releasing source books to expand it further than you can add in. So many. 4th edition was like, okay. Cool. We're putting that into the core, and we're gonna change it. But they they change a lot more things fundamentally in 4 between 3rd 4th edition, so that's not quite fair. But then 5th edition kinda the same thing. So it was sort of like these advanced rules and stuff always sort of seemed to get, like, kinda lumped into the next core book. Oh, man. And so now so by the time 5th edition came out, I mean, Shatteron has this reputation of being, like, Way too hard for people to play. Like, doesn't matter how much experience you have. I mean, I've heard that. Yeah. Plenty. And so, if you if you peek into the subreddit, like, that's That's a topic all the time. People go, I've heard about Shadowrun. I'm afraid to play it. Any tips? Like, what's a good addition? Mhmm. And that was me. When I came into this a few years ago, probably more like, you know, 8 or 9 years ago now Mhmm. I was asking around, like, hey. So how do how do I play this? And people were like, don't even try. Like, it's just, you know, take this other rules light game and just skin it With Shadowrun, and there you go. Like, don't even try it. And I was getting really frustrated. I was starting to try that. You know? I was like, okay. What if I try this or whatever? And then someone told me about 2nd edition, and it doesn't make any sense, you know, it doesn't really make sense. Like, I'm gonna play an old edition and it's gonna be easier. Mhmm. But think of, like, D and D where it's gotten easier over time, less crunchy and and and heavy. Yeah. Right. And and Like D and D. You, and this is something that like, there's this whole OSR movement now, right, where that you go all the way back to, like, basic D and D, It's actually you know, with as with the exception of the, Thacko or Mako or however you call it, That people trip up on, the rules are actually very simple because they didn't there was something about, like, that 2nd edition of Shadowrun where they started to, like, Same thing. Let's keep the complexity going because people are hungry for more. Make it harder for everyone involved. Make it harder for everyone. And then now, oh my god, it's way too hard. Let's make it easy again. Shutterow went to the exact same growing pains Mhmm. And, and I and so, anyway, I was like, okay. The only way I'm gonna get it to learn this is if I Maybe maybe I should check out the 2nd edition, and it I tried learning 3rd edition. I tried learning I looked at 4th. I looked at anarchy even, like, that that rules light version. Mhmm. And it was so much harder for me to comprehend. Mhmm. And for some reason, when I cracked up in that 2nd edition book, it just felt right. All of everything was, like, ringing true to me, and I was, like, this is so much it's an enjoyable read. Like Yeah. Like, I'm reading a good novel kinda thing. I love that. Yes. As someone who enjoys reading source books, like, you know, like, if it can, like, get you in and be like, man, this is, like, really good just by reading, like, the rules and and and the story and the stuff that they set up in it Yeah. Top tier. We gotta get you a a second issue, Korum, because if you're into that, that, The intro to this game is just incredible. It's just like it just sucks you in instantly. The lore and no one argues with that. Everyone is like, the lore, the world, perfect. No notes. Rules. I don't know. Questionable. Questionable. That's when I'm always trying to be like, no. No. Come back Come back in time with me to the 2nd edition. I'm try I promise you, it's it's much easier to learn. So, there's my 45 I'm sure that's all the time we have for tonight. That's, like, 45 minute answer to your question. That's it. That's the end of the episode. We're good to go. Phew. No. I I love that, and I love even even, like, saying to other people, you don't come back. Like, you know, they're just because it's a new edition doesn't mean it's also the right edition for you, and that doesn't mean it's gonna be the best edition overall, which there's always gonna be arguments on whether or not this editions the best or this editions the best, because it all comes down to personal preference. Totally. And if Absolutely. And if 2nd edition is the one that grabs you and is the one that makes sense to you. Play that. Like, do it. Yeah. I love it. And I I do wanna say, I I know that, I was talking with Adam about this, and I saw you post it as well on Twitter of the fact that they didn't have scans of the 2nd edition core corporate look. Right? Yeah. So that's an interesting thing where so, like, for whatever reason, 2nd edition was never on has not been on sale since it was on store shelves. Mhmm. That's interesting. Drive Thru RPG has a ton of their 2nd edition source books and other things. And then also all the other editions are available in PDF form on drive through. 1st edition, you can even print on demand, which is awesome. I was always we're all kinda scratching our heads, like, why is 2nd edition not on there? And out of nowhere, when I while I was doing the 2nd edition book club with Tom Dowd, They released this 2nd edition 1st and 2nd edition mega bundle Mhmm. On, bundled holding. And, it had a 2nd edition core rule book PDF in it. We're like, woah. Okay. So this is gonna come to the Yeah. Drive through RPG soon. This is amazing. And it and it never did. Mhmm. And, while we were also talking, Tom Dowd is looking at the PDF, and he's like, this is interesting. He's like, this is a 3rd printing of the 2nd edition. And he's like, I don't know why they chose that. There's, like, still mistakes in it and stuff. Uh-huh. And we've corrected that since. There's, like, 11 printings. Mhmm. Oh, wow. That's crazy. I don't know why they chose this one. And, and so I'm like, I don't know. You know? I look at my I look at my book, and I got an 11th printing. And it's, like, kinda perfect In between, like, the pages were perfect. The the cover was destroyed. But the in in between was, like, pristine. Mhmm. And so, like, I mean, I would give it to them to scan if if they need it. Mhmm. And we had someone else on the on the book club that was, He was, I think he was a contractor. He'd written stuff for, like, 5th edition. Mhmm. And he, he was like, I have the email of Jason Hardy, the line developer for Shadowrun, if you want it. I'm like, okay. Of course. So I just emailed him, and I I told him that, basically. I was just like, hey. We're super excited The about the set the mega bundle, we caught this one thing. Mhmm. If you want, I have this book, And you can have it if you want to scan it and put it make it available. And he was, like and he basically responded, like, it's not yeah. Sorry. Like, that Scam was not great. That's we're not gonna sell it because it's not it went in the bundle of holding that was great, but we don't really feel like it's good enough to sell on you drive through or even especially not print on demand. Mhmm. For sure. And so yeah. So I got the green light. They gave me an address. I shipped my book out. So cool. So we'll see. It was a that was about a month ago. Mhmm. And I know these things take time, So we'll see. Hopefully, the revamp of Shadowrun too. That would be amazing. I mean, I would print 4 of those out and have them just In my room, so I could, like, you know, go to my tabletop store and, like, play a game with some randoms and, like, random rule books and stuff like that. That would just be amazing. Yeah, you're like you're like the the the person to get everyone to play shadow run. Like, alright. You know, come come to my games. I'll give you a book so you can take it back and play it for yourself. I would love to be that guy. I I need them to allow me to buy that many books so I can be that guy. Yeah. Give me give me a game store's worth of books. Yeah. Money. Give you more money. That's what I'm trying to do here. Please. I am throwing it at you. I'm ready. Right. Because right now, it's just going into someone's pocket that sold it on eBay. Like, you're not getting a dime for this. Like, come on. Yeah. Let me support you. No. I love that. And that's so cool to to even know the fact that there is still community there to care and, like, support this game that is older, because it is so easy for them to kinda fall behind and for people not to play them anymore. But, like, you know, there are big communities that still play 3rd edition or 2nd edition of even, like, d and d and stuff like that. Mhmm. So it's really, really cool, and I just love that. And as well of having an actual play podcast with it too. Like, what's even better, to show people, yeah, this is how the game works. That that was a big part of it too. And like you said, like, the The community is is so, like, passionate about Shadowrun. I I'd never seen I I mean, I was one of them. Like, I was just, like, I fucking love this game. Like, I grew up loving this game, and it became kind of a part of me. It was it was how I'd heard about cyberpunk in general as a as a genre. Mhmm. Like, I'd I'd played Shadowrun as a kid on Genesis. I was like, what is this game? This is so crazy. And so anytime I got into I read Neuromancer, I watched Blade Runner, the movie, I watched, you know, anything, I always compared it to Shadowrun. Like, it was like, this is kinda like Shadowrun. As I was, like, getting it all backwards, you know, but Everybody is like that. Everybody here just, like, loves Shadowrun, everyone in this community. And, and so It was kinda tragic when I was trying to get back into it that everyone was, like, yeah. Trust me, man. I know. I love this game. It's there's nothing like it. Mhmm. But don't play shit. You're better yeah. Don't play it. You're better off trying something else. And so I started making, I started out actually with my, Chris and Dan, who are on my podcast, they're they're players in my game. We just started a game during the pandemic. Yeah. And I've learned Shadowrun. You know, I went through it. I was like, I gotta get my shit together, and I learned it. And, we started playing, And I was like, this is crazy. Like, this I could run you know, this is it's, like, built to be run like an action movie. Yeah. It's You can get bogged down if you let yourself Mhmm. With lots of rulings and stuff, but it's such a dramatic game. Like, there's so many dice you roll and everything feels huge. You know? It's it's very over the top, and I love that. And so we were having a blast, and I was like, I don't really get that sense a lot of the time when I'm listening to most actual plays for Shadowrun. Mhmm. It's usually that very, like, sleek and cool, Sort of like, you know, dark shades and a black trench coat. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, matrix feel. Mhmm. Whereas and then it's kind of a confusing reference because that's an action movie, over the top. Actually, my people. But the vibe was less like like, I don't know. I'm trying to I'm trying to think of, like, We're about we were playing it much more like a Die Hard Yeah. You know, or a Something a bit more. From New York. Dramatic in over the top in a way that's not like, you know, I'm cool. Like, that kind of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, the the, a bit the corny was the girl. Yeah. Yeah. Corny. Kinda true. It's like, You know, kinda like predator or, like, you know, that aliens or, like, the the the one liners and the insane action, you know, Predator high fives and shit like that. And so then we just decided, like, we're gonna we'll make this a podcast, you know. And it's been really cool because, I never played Shadowrun as a kid as the the tabletop game, but we everyone we've we've been hearing from Are like, oh my god. Like, this feels just like when I played as a kid. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And that was that's been really fun. So It's like it's like helping people, like, bring back their memories of when they used to play this. Like, that's just, like, really cool, especially since, like, you know, it's so easy with, like, jobs and stuff. Up. Like, I don't have time for those games and and not even, like, with new additions when it feels like it's impossible, apparently, to be able to actually get into it. It's like, oh, maybe that's a lost cause, and then being able to, like, look at an actual play and be like, that's what it felt like as a kid. That's what I played as a kid. That's so, so cool. And, actually, I would like to get into the actual, like, game itself. And I I I kinda wanna start with the system. You mentioned that it uses a bunch of d six. Is it a dice pool system? It is. Yay. Think it uses tons of d sixes. Oh, those are a lot. Yeah. I'm all for mechanics. Alright. So the way it works and is very simply is that at least 2nd edition. Mhmm. Yeah. That's that's what we're talking about, 2nd edition. Yeah. Everything that applies in this episode, everything that is said in this episode, it is for 2nd edition unless said otherwise. Yes. And the very cool thing is that 1st, 2nd, and 3rd have the basically the same exact system. Okay. They just get more kind of there's more involved. It gets more involved. But a bit in a in a nutshell, it's I keep saying in a nutshell. But in a nutshell, it's, it's For every your your skills, whatever your skill rating is, that's how many d sixes you roll. Mhmm. A 3 is average. 6 is a Almost like Olympian, like, perfect specimen. You're you're you are honed to to expert level. And then obviously cyberware or magic can kind of tip you over the tongue of of further beyond that, like and, so you that's how many d sixes you roll. Like, your skill, When you do something, you use a skill, the d the GM will be like, okay, you're gonna shoot at somebody, use your fire what's your firearm skill? I've got a 4, you're rolling 40 sixes. Yeah. Pretty straightforward. Very simple. Yeah. And and then based on what you're doing, you get a target number. Mhmm. If it's shooting, your range there's a table of of the range of whatever gun, kinda type of gun you have, Whatever that distance is will give you a target number, and you're trying to hit that target number. And you can mod this is where things get get a little bit crazy, but and especially in later editions, but You modify that target number can be modified by gear. Mhmm. You have a laser sight on your gun, it makes it a little easier. If someone's hiding in cover, it makes it a little harder. Mhmm. So that that Target number can scale, but it the base target number is the distance. Mhmm. And then table too. Like, make it a bit easier, like, people scale like that. Yeah. And it's and it's very it's it's, like I think it starts at 4 Mhmm. In terms of the distance, And you get good at knowing. It's almost like D and D where you just remember, like, a dagger is a d four. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know you just get to realize what Those are? That gets ingrained in your brain. It gets ingrained. You know, there's, like, there's pistols, there's rifles, there's whatever, and then, like, this specific gun can have different, benefits to it. But for the most part, the the the range is what your that's what your target number is. And then, and then they have to roll soak, so they roll their body versus the Power of your weapon. Mhmm. And so there's no damage the damage there's no, health points. Yeah. The way the game works is, like, your that this gun, by default, if you hit if it hits you, it gives you this kind of wound, sense. Medium wound, a moderate a moderate wound, a light one. Yeah. And so your job when you get if you get hit, you gotta stage it down Mhmm. By, You know, trying to soak it with your body and roll to see if you can, like, stage that down to hopefully nothing. Mhmm. And then depending on how many and sorry. I'm getting ahead of myself. But Whenever you're going for a target number, that number or higher is a success. Mhmm. If you're doing just a normal skill. If you're like, I'm gonna go drive this car, and I go, okay, roll me your driving skill. All you have to do is get one success. Mhmm. And row your rules What counts as a success? Like, what number? So anything if if if the target number is 4 Mhmm. You're you're counting how many you're checking to see how if you got any fours or higher. Okay. Perfect. And if you get more, you'll be just getting a better result. But all you need is 1 to succeed, which is just kinda cool. You're just you're just kinda it's it moves kinda quick because it's just like, Okay. Target number is 4. I'm rolling. I got no fours Yeah. Or higher. Yeah. Look at my file here. And with with sec with with 1st to 3rd edition, what's really cool too is there's exploding dice. Mhmm. So your target number, if it gets harder, it can go higher than 6. Oh, fun. And if it goes higher than 6, you gotta roll a 6, And then you gotta you roll that 6 again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because see if you're hitting that. Kids on brooms has that, and that's actually something I really loved when I I played it myself is, like, getting being able to, like you know, let's say, they're trying to accomplish something and they need to roll an 8 and they're rolling with a d four, and they're like, oh, this is impossible. No, it's not. It's not. All you have to roll is a 4, and it can explode, and then you roll another 4. And look, you made it. Like, I I love that countermechanic, and that's so exciting in the moment too, like, hoping for that role. Like, come on. Let's get it. Yeah. You have the whole table cheering when it rolls, You know, it comes up. You know? It's it is so dramatic that the Yes. That the dice pool and the exploding dice. And so that's basically it. It's it's you're rolling your skill versus a target number. The GM will tell you the target number, And then you're looking for just one success. With combat, it's a little different because you're you're kinda staging or or staging down damage, but that's the system. Yeah. Which, you know, seems pretty easy. Like, obviously, that's not all all it is, but I like even just the addition of having a table that you can use for the scaling. I think that's great. And that's a lot of things I've seen in older editions too where even when they have some of that crunchier stuff, they will have actual tables. They're like, here's how, like, here's here's how you do it. It's like, oh, thank you. Like, you're making my life easier. Right. And with and just like with D and D, you can write that stuff Down. Underneath. Right? So it's like, okay. I can write my we we'll we'll, like, bracket it, the the distance range. So it'll be, like, you know, 30 to 60 meters is a 4, and then 7 61 to whatever is a 5. And so it's you just kinda jot that stuff down the side And now you got it. Mhmm. You know? We're good. Yeah. But in our game, I kinda keep track of all that anyway. So my players just have to be like, okay. I wanna try and do this skill. Mhmm. What's my skill on the role that made d sixes, and Ben will let me know if I succeeded or not. And so it's very simple to play. I love that. Though I am curious. I mean, obviously, you do it in an actual play format. I assume you guys do mostly, like, theater of the mind type thing, you know, not actual tactical maps. Is this a game you wanna use tactical mats for, or is that just making it overly complicated and weird? No. You know, it I think it just like any other game, it's, it's really depends on the table. Mhmm. Shadowrun what it what it what I love about Shadowrun oh, I'm getting into it now. Yeah. What I love about Shadowrun is that, because I haven't really touched on this this whole time, and I don't, I I guess I was starting way more basic. But the premise is that you are a shadow runner, sense. That is is that you're a criminal. You're you're these mercenaries paid by whether it's the government or it's the corporations or it's, you know, whatever factions that that are trying to get something done, but, like, don't wanna get their hands dirty. They'll hire you to do it. Mhmm. And so every run, You have a fixer, and you've got a the Johnson was what it's called. The Johnson is the dude that's paying you. Mhmm. So they just called it mister Johnson, and it's it's it's anonymous. You never you never know their name, and they're just a guy that gives you a job, and then you try to do the job. And so Sorry. It's a long winded answer for for you, but, like, the job is like an ocean's eleven. It it always comes off like a like a heist almost. And so the the the big thing about Shadowrun is, like, planning your entry, figuring out, like, doing what they call legwork in this game is, like, Talking through your contact. Everyone has contacts when you create your your characters, and, like, those are huge. Those are, like, you're calling up people and seeing if you could get maps for this place or if there's someone that can do a favor for you and, like, get you a pass to get into this building kind of thing. And and so maps can be so my point is, Depending on the table, they could be, like, that's super important. Mhmm. Because I wanna look at a map and go, okay, there's our entry. Yeah. And you can, like, get into it where it's like Yeah. Like, this is the best point of entry, and there's gonna be guards here and here and here. Exactly. Oh, I love that. That's so cool. Can get really into the The specific, like, you know, granular Mhmm. With, like, how that map's gonna go and how we're gonna plan this, like, an Ocean's 11 movie. Yeah. You know? But then, like, how I I play it both ways. Mhmm. There are times where a mission I think would be really fun to give them the map and just sit back and go go Go to town and figure out how you wanna get into this place. Yeah. How to distract a group of, TTRPG players. Give them a map and say, I'm I like, you figure it out. Right. You want you want a break as a GM for a day? Throw the map down and just go every now and then. And that's it. Your session's over in 2 hours. Plan plan your your entry and and yeah. No. They will get so distracted, which is actually funny because, like, as you've been describing some of the stuff with, like, the injuries, like, that it's really reminded me like, bits and pieces have reminded me of blades in the dark, which is that, like, you know, heist, you know, criminals and all of that, and this is almost like, you know, a cyberpunk, a bit more action focused and all of that version of it. Totally. I love that, except blades in the dark. He's like, don't plan because it will be, it will be, like, 2 hours of just planning between your players. That game was definitely inspired by Shadowrun. Oh, yeah. I can see it now. Like, I I never even thought about it before. And it's and it's got a It's got a, homebrew or it's got a system Mhmm. That mirror it's called runners runners runners in the shadows Oh, really? That is a shadow run version of blades in the dark. So it all kinda come full full circle where it's, like, you know, there's a lot of people I think that that wanted this is a really good plug for my podcast. You said I'd be doing this throughout, and I'm gonna do it now. But I think, you know, a lot of people are were like, I you know, I love Shattering, but, like, the time to sit around for 4 hours and look at a map and, like, all this, like, crunchiness and we're, like, figuring out all this stuff and then what they then, you know, Someone was, like, I'm gonna make a system that doesn't do that. Mhmm. That gets that feel of, like, the Ocean's 11 heist movie, But, like, I don't wanna deal with that. We wanna make it simple and, like, fun and keep that pace moving, so we'll make blagues in the dark. Right? And then people were telling everyone, Just play Runners in the Shadows because it's what you want in Shadowrun without all that stuff. And I made this podcast because it's kinda, like, Not exactly. You could do it that way with the rules as written in 2nd edition. That's what we do. So to answer your question, I I do use Theater of the mind a lot. And what I'll even do, I'll just I'll put, like, just mood boards up on my screen. That. Yes. And I'll just slowly like, I'll use, like, Roll 20, and I'll put, like, I'll make, like, a little collage of how how this before. It's so fun. And then and then just sort of, like, carve out the fog of war to, like, reveal more of it. That's so good. Yeah. And so I'll do that sometimes. Some sessions, there's not a map at all, and it's just like you just kinda you know, you're then you're you're just using a different part of your brain. It's like, I need to keep things simple simple so they can piece together in their head. Mhmm. And then there's other times where I'm like, here's the map. Figure out how you get in, and, Shadowrun plays to both of those, which is great. Yeah. That that is fantastic. And that I didn't even again, I am this is why I like talking to people about games. I get to now figure out that, like, Shadowrun and Blades in the Dark are a lot closer than I ever thought they would be. No. It's I I I had to I had to have, like, the Neo brain implant learning moment myself years ago where I was just like, what the hell is all this? But it's it's a What are we looking at here? There's so many games, like and there's I know TTRPGs. Yeah. Once once you really get into them too, you can start scene where, like, oh, I can see where they get elements from this game and elements from that game and blah blah blah. Like, it it it just all builds on itself, and that's almost like what you were saying with Shadowrun. Like, it's even built on its own self with, like, adding, like, supplemental rules, and it's, like, oh, it gets more and more complicated as time goes on because they just keep combining it, which is still absolutely insane to me that they, like, do that. Like I know. Like, how many movies are in that book? When you look at the fan base, you kinda get it too, though, because it's it's people that especially shadow run At a certain point where people that was a badge of honor. I know Shadowrun. I figured it out. I am better than you. You come in. If you wanna play this game, you gotta know I'm sorry, but you gotta keep it all straight. You wanna get get good. It was the original get good. Yeah. Get good. You know? And so, You know, it's it's I I I think a lot of people were turned off by that or turned away or just like, really? It's gotta be like that? And I feel like we've been kind of the, well, we've been sort of, like, letting people in, like, that have been sort of on the outside. Like, I wanted to play this way, but I felt like I've I've been told there's no there's no way to do it. Yeah. And and that's another thing is, like, we talked about, You know, 3rd edition where this that problem started kinda really started to happen. The the crunch creep Mhmm. Started to happen. Wasn't like 96, 98. I can't remember if it's 96 or 98 when that was released, but from that point on, it just kinda built into the denser denser system. And so what what's kinda crazy is you're talking to these old timers, right, that were like, I've played since 3rd edition, and I can tell you there's there's no easy edition of Shadowrun. Oh, and it's, like, it's just right there. It's they're just past it. And how do you tell someone that's played for 25 years that they You know that there's actually an older one that is simpler. And and and like I said, you know, a lot of those rules were in sourcebooks for for 2nd edition. So a lot of people don't remember either. They played with all those source books. So even some of them, they'll be like, 2nd edition was was just as hard. They're kinda not remembering that they added that complexity themselves. Optional rules too. Like Right. Like Right. You didn't have to, but because it's, like, I want all of the content, like, give it Right. Give it to me, and I want to use it. It's so easy to be, like, that's the memory. You know? This is what it takes to run this game. This is what it takes to play. Oh, man. Right. Exactly. So strange. Like It's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot. What it is to see if not right. This yet? Oh, no. I am not at all. I love it. And that's and To go back to sort of, another other thing that I love about Shadowrun is the magic system as well Oh, yeah. Yeah. To go into mechanics. It's it's it's got a very different magic system than what you are normally accustomed to with, like, D and D. D and D has, like, what's kind of more like fancy magic, I feel like, where it's like it's you have spell slots and it's very laid out on how magic Works. It's very Yeah. Structured. Right? Here are the rules. Here is how it can and cannot be used, stuff like that. You know? Right. Very meta game y. Mhmm. Like, you know, like, almost not not immersive in a way. You have spell slots, and you have to, like, keep a mind that in mind as you play. Shadowrun is Is what and it's another thing I love about it is it's like the the lore is so rich, and it's not it's not in it's not, How would I say it? It's not it's not rooted in the real world. The real world is rooted into it. Oh, I like that. Yeah. And so it's it's not like one of those things where, you know, The events you're you're looking at history and you're plugging Shadowrun into it going, this is why this happened because actually there's magic. No. No. It's like what the the story of Shadowrun is that, the Mayan calendar with the world ending in 2012, they were correct. Oh, fun. Yeah. The world ends, but not how we think it's gonna end. It didn't Not everything just stopped. Mhmm. This a new cycle happened with with the world and magic reawakened. Oh, that's cool. It's super cool. And so, like, people started to get these abilities. And, notably, in the original or older editions of Shadowrun, They they focus a lot on, like, Native Americans in America that that were praying to Earth or had, like, you know, these they had strong connection to the Earth Started hearing answers in their songs and their and, like, started getting actual power. Yeah. And they actually secede from the America and take their land back, which I think is so fucking tough, and I love it. They got all their fucking land back. They fight the United States military and win. Oh my god. Yeah. It's fucking badass. And so, so so magic is this thing where it's, like, it's very immersed with how With the Gaia sphere, with the Earth, life anything with living any of us living, we all have auras, and they all build together to build almost like almost Gravity. Like, they mass creates gravity. Like, life creates this magic force. That's so cool. And so how mages work in Shadowrun, I fucking love this, is that there's not really much, There's not really any range on spells. Some of them have range. But line of sight, if I can see it, I can hit it with a spell. And I can cast spells as long as I want. There's no limits to how many. There's no spell slots. I just I just wanna cast magic, I just cast it. So they're super powerful. I love it. I love it. They're the way they're balanced is that instead of limiting their magic, The balance is I'm channeling this magical energy through my body to shoot a fireball at you. That I have to roll to see if that hurts me or if that puts me knocks me out or something. I gotta roll drain on my magic. And so it's just sort of like, You're kind of gambling every time you cast magic to see how you if you whether you screwed yourself or not. And so it's really cool. I like that, and that's a that's a good way for it to be almost like a resource, but not one that you have to keep track of, but more so something that may or, I guess, will eventually happen. Like, you may not roll high enough to be able to succeed on that, and you get drained. That's really cool. I like that direction. A great point. Yeah. It's not it's not like, resource management in the sense of, like, Of how D and D is, where it's like, I gotta keep track of my spells. So I cast this level spell that actually counts for this kinda this many of those lower spells off. Scared to use those spells too because it's like, I'm gonna run out versus, like, you can just be casting. And, yeah, there's still that looming threat that something may happen, but it's not gonna happen if you don't cast the spells in. Like, you have to cast the spells. You play a mage because you want to cast the spells, so you use them, and you don't have to feel bad of, oh, I used, I used my 1st level slot now, and I'm not gonna have it for later. Then we're not gonna them feel to succeed, and then you don't use the spells at all. And it's like, why am I playing a wizard? Right. I'm throwing slingshot as a wizard because I don't wanna use my spells yet. Hand trips where it's like Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shouldn't you be using the actual magic that you have? And there's nothing wrong with using cantrips or a different weapon or anything like that if you want to, put the reason to play someone with magic is to use the magic. So I like that a lot. That's really cool. In 5th edition or or I think it was a 4th when they invented the cantrip, I wanna say, or I I can't remember which edition d and d. I'm not sure where they invented the cantrip. You can see where their head was at, though. It's like, we want people to be using magic more, so let's give them a freebie that they can just use. Mhmm. And and it's a very limited magic, but it's something they can you know, magic missile or whatever. Magic missile isn't even a cantrip. It would be It's not. I thought it was. It would be a a cantrip, actually. I haven't played dj in a while. It's a first slot spell. You have to use a spell slot on that, which is, like, fun, but, yeah, that would actually make a really good cantrip. That would. Yeah. Petition. You might have to tweak the the automatic hit maybe a little bit. Or you can just lessen the amount of bolts or, like, you could there's there's ways that you could do it. I think that would that would actually be fun. Play D and D where you can, like, play D and D with the rules of you can cast anything, but have a different, like but then just play a different game. Like, honestly, at that point, you're putting that much work into it Let's make D and D where you can cast as much magic as you want, but it might knock you out or hurt you. And then it's like, why don't you play Shadowrun? Why don't you just play Shadowrun? Exactly. But that's what's that to me is also, like that's one of my favorite things about Shadowrun is the magic for that same reason. If I can see it, if if it's if it's a if the same light that's hitting my target is hitting my retina, I can hit it with a spell. That's so cool. And so that even, like, feels the right name. Like Yeah. It's terrifying. And so there's this phrase in Shadowrun, like, geek the mage, which is a very eighties awesome lingo. But geek the mage, like, kill him first because he's fucking god. Like, he will Destroy us. And and so Shadowrun 2, especially 2nd edition, the whole the the thing that's really important in combat His speed. Like, you need to be fast. Mhmm. You need to be able to get initiative faster than anybody else, and you can actually take in 2nd edition rules, take multiple turns before anybody else moves in the past. Fun. And so you got your street samurais who are these kind of super wired reflexes people that are Like anime. Like, they can move and cut people down before anyone else draws their gun kind of thing. And so the mage, it's like, You wanna take him up before it comes to his turn because once it comes to his turn, like, hell breaks loose. Yeah. Everyone's wiped out. Right. Everything changes. Himself. Yeah. If I'm going down, you're going down with me. Right. And and so it's a super lethal system for that reason. Everything is meant to be Super OP. Mhmm. And the only thing that checks the the the checks and balances are that, like, this guy's also OP. Yeah. And then, you know and also this mage might kill himself. Sense. Mhmm. So that's how that gets checked. That's the balance to that. And and so what kind of happens with Shadowrun, which I love, Is it makes you think twice Mhmm. Before initiating combat. Yeah. So it really forces that game loop of, like, let's really think out the a situation. Let's talk to these guys or let's Mhmm. Maybe before we run down that alley and fuck these guys up, let's see if there's an escape on the other side or you know what I mean? Like, plan a way to, like, Put everything stack everything in our favor. You don't wanna let them have any advantage over you before we initiate this thing. Mhmm. And it just creates a much different game experience, I think, than D and D where it's, like, There's a room full of skeleton skeletons. Walk in there and bust them. Yeah. Let's go find some skeletons today, which I Right. Like, I keep hearing that where a lot of older editions do seem to have, like, you know, you get into combat at your own risk. Like, there's a lot of, like, older games like that. And I think even older D and D was like that too. You know? You probably didn't wanna go directly into a combat situation because you don't know what you're going up against. You can die. Right. Like, there's there's nothing to save you. There's magic, but, like, even even in even in some of the older editions, some of the magic was more limiting. I know there's people. That's amazing. That's the tagline. That's the tagline. Yeah. No. There's nothing to save you. That's what they're telling us before we buy fucking walls full of books. There's nothing to save you once you start playing this game. You were screwed the moment you cracked that book. Yeah. Sorry. You had a point. I destroyed it. No. You're good. No. I I know even with, like, some of the, older editions, they even don't have so much healing and ways to heal and ways to revive and things like that. Like, it was a lot more permanent, and, like, it that was what you expected. And I think that's been what's really interesting with, like, I would say, like, the free league boom. Like, free leagues getting super popular. Love Free League myself. But, like, it almost feels like they're taking those aspects of some of these older games, making them day making them deadly, making them, like, you know, get into combat at your own risk, and that's just really fascinating, and it's it's I mean, this isn't I find, like, some older people tend to like the free league games because I think that's what they're used to with some of the games they used to play in the past. Sense. Like, yeah. I want those that those gritty games that are kinda deadly and that, like, I feel like I'm going to die if I go into a combat situation even if I stack it against or stack it for myself. Like Right. It's that I love that. And and it's cool because Free League, you can you know, they've, like, Dragonbane and, and these these games, they're actually they're old RPGs. I didn't know it either. Exactly. But, like, I didn't know. But they are It's it's kinda cool because it's like, okay. You didn't know anything about it. You it's introduced to you as like a new game. Yeah. And now you're getting into this, and what you don't realize is that you're really falling in love with these kind of older mechanics, how things used to work, but they're polished and they're modernized in a way that's easier to Understand. And, and don't I'm a big fan of Dungeon Crawled Classics, which did the same thing. They they're playing a very old school Basic D and D almost, but with 5 e terminology and things that are easier for us to understand that has played tabletop. Almost simplify it and streamline it and make it, yeah, more understandable because some of these older games, it feels like there is a lot there. Like, there's a lot there to unpack, and so it's like, I don't wanna go I I don't wanna go through all that because, you know, it's gonna be difficult. Okay. Let's play an old I mean, literally the OSR stuff. Let's play an old game Right. But new. You know? Let's let's see. It's so hard to To know where to start Mhmm. On about anything. Yeah. You know? Like and and Shadowhun's the same way where it's just like it's like a it's like an old show on Netflix. Right. I wanna watch Star Trek. Yeah. You know? And then it's like, well, that's a there's a lot of Star Trek. Like, where do you wanna start? Do you like this kind of Movies. You like this kind of storyline. Like, there's this show. There's this and so it's like it is a very daunting task. And so what I love about it is it's like, you know, you get something like, This freely come along, and they almost make, like, the new Star Trek movie, something that it's you know, if if as be kind of maybe a bad example because I think truckies Kinda hate some of the Star Trek movies, but We don't worry about it. But it's yeah. We won't worry about that. But it's like it's repackaging this thing, this sleek new package that, It's just sort of introducing it in a way that, like like you said, like, gets the older fans excited again. Like, oh, fuck. Yeah. This is this is what I missed. Yeah. And then new fans going, this is different. Yeah. Like, this is I've never seen this before. This is fun. Like, yeah. Let's listen. Never done this before? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll say, like, dragonbane was so much fun, and it was so genuinely terrifying. Like, when we got into that room with that minotaur, and I'm like, oh, we're all gonna die. Yeah. Like, That's what made me so excited with Dungeon Call Classics. Same deal. It was like going back to a time like what you see on, like, stranger things or ET when they're playing, you know, the D and D game from back then that, like, they're afraid of skeletons. Mhmm. Like, who the fuck is afraid of skeletons now in in five e? You Okay. I know how many fucking hit points it is. It's easy. Yeah. Well I'll use my bludgeoning weapon. It's just a stack of bones. Like Yeah. Alright. Bludgeoning weapons, everybody. Alright. We're doing this. Like, No one it not to say again, like, I'm shitting on D and D, but, like, you know, obviously, you can run it and and introduce that terror. And Yep. It's all all in the way you'd present it, but, but it's that deadliness like you said. It's that, like, this thing could fucking kill you. Mhmm. There's, like, 1, one Doug on the street could kill you in D and D, old D and D, and those old games. And so I I totally agree. Yeah. It's so It's so very interesting. And so back on topic of Shadowrun, so that's great. Looks like a 400 foot U-turn. Oh, yeah. I mean, so it's the same vein. It's fine. But yeah. No. Just so cool. This is great. But so I kinda wanna get a bit into the way that, like, characters work and, like, even some of the character your creation because I know that we've mentioned, like, magic and the mages and things like that. How does character creation work? Like, what are at least the basic steps of it. Obviously, we don't have to go through and make a character, but what can people, like, expect from it? I love these questions, I just love them. I don't know. This is amazing. I I want so good. I wish my friends would sit and listen to me talk like this about Shadowrun. My wife is The love drains from her eyes when I start to tell her about this shit. I will talk about RPGs all freaking day. I swear. Yeah. So so character creation was is another thing I fucking love about shadow run is that, when you're counter of, like, every time you say you love shout out another top. I'm catching a theme here. There's there are a bunch of There are many ways to create characters as the as the the short answer is that the I'm gonna go into the original way, which I really love. This is very different way of creating characters, but it frustrated people who are used to point by Oh, okay. Character generation or was like, you guys just give me pools of points, and I'll just bake it. You know? Figure it out. Whatever. Yeah. Like, I want this to feel like they wanted that, like, more granular control over exactly how things work. The way Shadowrun Character creation works in the in the core is it's called a priority system. Okay. And the way it works is and what I fucking love about it. I love this passion. Like, you're It's nuts. It's painful. Passion's painful. It's it makes you prioritize, instantly as you go what's more Important to you as your character. So the first thing is there's there's 5 priorities, a through e. Mhmm. First is your race. You have to choose whether you're human or if you're a metahuman. If you're elf, you know, troll, orc, dwarf. And If you choose if you're human, I'm not gonna go through the whole thing, but, like, if you're human, you you you put that that's the first thing you decide. If you're human, You can every all the priorities are available to you. If you're a a metahuman, you have to fill that That 1st slot with your with your race. Mhmm. That's the that's the most important thing. And then the next thing you decide is if you're magic or not, if you're magical. If you're magical, you get you get magic points. Yep. If you're not, you're not you you can't you can't develop that later in in the game. You can't you can't multiclass or anything like that. You know? Mhmm. You're either magical or you're not a character creation. And the way the priorities work. So once you figure those 2 things out, the way the priority system works is that, you have skills, attributes, And resources. Those 3 things, you have to slot into the priorities as to what you want. And for where where that is in the priorities, you get a a different bucket of points. Mhmm. So if you put skills as a, you're gonna get the most skill points. Oh, yeah. Bucket of, like right? And And so if you put it in b, you get a little less skill points. If you get it in c, you get a little less. And d, it's like, why even do it? Yeah. And then e, you you can't really do e. So because that's either gonna be filled with, like, magic or race or whatever. So, I guess you can do e. Sorry. But It's like it's down to, like, almost nothing. That's not important to your character, so you don't get as many. Yeah. And so what kinda happens here is it starts to make you Right off the bat, start to decide what and and you might not even know what you wanna be. But as you answer those first 2 questions, Am I a human or a metahuman? Mhmm. That's the first thing they have to decide. Am I magical or am I not? That's the second thing I have to decide. And now from here on out, What do I want more of? Do I want more attribute points to my body, my my attributes? Do I want more skill points? I wanna be more someone that knows how to do more skills, Or do I want more resources? Because that resources is like money and and the resources is also your magic points. Yeah. If you decide to be magical, you get force points to spend on spells and stuff. So I just love it. Like Like, the 1st time I did it, it was I'll just I'm gonna warn anybody right now who's listening to this, like, oh my god. I'm gonna go make a character right now. It's not Fun at first. I promise. It's very hard. At first, you're just like it's so different. Mhmm. And and you have and and, like, kinda like any game, You kinda have to keep going back and, like, reconfiguring points in places because certain things affect those points or whatever. Right? Especially when you, like, do it the first time it's like, you know, maybe you make a mistake where it's like, oh, I meant to, I meant to have, like, actual resources for magic, and then, oops, I actual I accidentally put that into, like, e on accident. Like, oh, no. Totally. And and and another thing that's really cool about Shadowrun is that the gear affects your stats. Mhmm. Not all of it, but but like cyberware. Yeah. Like, that actually affects your stats. When you do something, it actually makes you either you could get dermal plating. Mhmm. I mean, isn't that why you want it for like, to actually, like, you know, affect you and and enhance you, I guess? Yeah. But then that that reconfigures your your rating. Right? So then now, like, oh, maybe I don't wanna put as many points into my body. I'll just make up those points with Dermal plating. Yeah. Right? So it's kinda flipping back and forth. But yeah. But it's kinda cool. And and And then the way the way, cyberware is balanced is that everyone has essence. Mhmm. Your body we talked about your aura. Every living thing has an aura. You all start with 6 essence points, and every piece of cyberware has a, Essence rating. Mhmm. And you have to subtract that from your essence. Oh. So when you when you get stuff, you're you're less whole. Your bot your your spirit, There's something missing now. You took you took your arm off and got a robot arm. The you know, that that subtracts from your essence score, and you can't have You can't go below 0. If you go below 0, you're not human anymore. You die. Your spirit your soul dies. And so mages, that's how you balance mages. They their essence rating directly impacts their magic ability. Oh. And so you don't have a I see a lot of mages with a lot of cyberware because they want their strongest magic, so they don't really they don't touch their bodies. They keep themselves pretty pure. That's cool. But what's cool about shadowing is there's no classes. Yeah. That's another thing I wanted to say is that It's it's just it's our they're all archetypes is what they're called. You kind of know these sort of, like, north stars of where what kind of builds you could make. Mhmm. But the spectrum is wide open on how you could be kind of like a street Sam that has really awesome gear and cyberware and stuff, but it also has, like, a little bit of magical ability, so you could see into astral space, for instance, or you could do, certain things that would be helpful. Mhmm. But you can kinda create anything under the sun, which is kinda cool without Shadowrun. It leaves it open, and I do like the priority list because, again our the priority, like, character creation because it is, like, picking your priorities. Like, it it is exactly that. Like, what do I want to specialize in? That's what I think sometimes we keep bringing up D and D, but it's fine. With D and D, I think it's great to have, you know, the different classes. Like, yeah. You know, if you're playing a barbarian, you're looking at being, oh, god. What is it called when you, like, take a bunch of hits as punching bag, I guess? A tank? Yeah. A tank. Yes. A tank. You're you're looking to be a tank. You're looking a be able to deal some damage, but you're mostly gonna be a tank. Like, that's what you're looking at when you're when you decide to play a barbarian. But what I think is funny, with sometimes with d and d classes is the fact that they've created so many subclasses that let you dip into other, like, specialties that it almost, like, feels like everyone's playing, like, variations that are similar to each other because it's like, oh, yeah. One can do magic. I'm martial and can do magic, or I I'm magic, and I can wield weapons. Like, there sometimes doesn't feel like they're specialties, and I like the idea with, like, you know, the priorities is that you're like, okay. Magic or no? Like, like, right off the bat. Right. Like, making that decision. Do I want to deal with magic in this game? Do I not wanna deal with magic? And then, like, from there, what do I prioritize? What do what do I want my role in this game to be? What do I want to be good at? And it's not just like everything. It's it's narrowing it down, which I think is great. Niche down. Exactly. Yeah. No. It's so totally and and, and that's something, you know, going. That's like the new versus old way of thinking in a way too where, and this also affects Shadowrun. Shadowrun later editions, they tried to, To balance they kind of followed D and D's lead and and how D and D was going where it's like like you're saying, like, where everyone gets a chance to kind of do a little bit of everything or Or, like, for, like, a good example is, like, trying to balance a fireball versus a bullet. Yeah. Right. Where it was like, we want these powers to be sort of equal in a way, so you're not going, like, that Fireball's, like, way more powerful than this sweet gun I bought. Yeah. It's so much cooler, like, all of that. Yeah. And so, like, in newer editions, they there's a little bit of there's a lot of effort in, like, kind of Balancing those things. Kinda like D and D where it's like, you know, trying to balance those classes Yeah. So that no one really outshines anyone else. Mhmm. Like, they're all kind of at the same level. They just do different things. Yeah. The older edition The Shadowrun, we're like, fuck that, man. Like, if you're if you're magic, you know magic. You're doing crazy magic stuff, but that guy's slow. Mhmm. So Is he great at combat? Probably not compared to somebody that is built for combat. And then then you got somebody who's really stealthier or really great Driver. Mhmm. Right? Like Yeah. Like, the the driver. And now that's his time to shine, the hacker. Mhmm. And so there's, like, this very it's like a paper, rock, scissors type of balance to shatter an older shadow run where it's like, this will always beat this in this situation. Yeah. And this will always beat this in this situation. They will always have a moment that they're good at something. Yeah. Right. And so there's an effort to round out your team. Much like D and D, but, like, to To let those people but but you really just let those guys shine in those moments because that's what they're for. Exactly. Which I think is so cool. I love I love when a character is specialized in something. It's like, yes. Like, shine. Let's let's let's put a spotlight on you. It's one of my favorite things about my monster in the week game. I have a, player who plays as a flake, which is basically, like, conspiracy theorist, and I will give him moments like, alright. You know? Like yeah. You know? Let's dive into what is your character thinking right now, and I will reward theories that he makes up because it's like, yeah, let's get like, you are you are shining in this moment to, like, show off how crazy of ideas that you can come up with right now. Right. It's so much fun. And, actually, I would love to ask, do you have would you like to share some examples of maybe, like, characters that you've done in the past or actually, I don't know if you've have you played as a player in any shadow run games, or have you only been a GM? I have played as a player, in 1 game Woo. Before this. Like anybody, we're we were usually, you know, cursed to be forever GLs, especially Shadowrun because There's not many people that want to run it. Mhmm. And so if I wanna play this game, I gotta run it. But I did play, I played 3rd edition Prior to my 2nd edition game, and I had a character that was very classic street Sam, more of an infiltrator, Stealthy street, Sam, named Jesse Slim. Jesse Slim. That's a great name. And it was just a katana wielding badass with, wired reflexes and and guns that could you know, with, smart gun links, wires that go through his body Aw. That let him see, create a cools in his eyes and can shoot better. Like, just cool shit like that. I had ropes that I could that I, like, I could rappel down buildings, and I could press a button, and the rope would dissolve Into dust. Oh my god. Traces. Super cool. Like, the gear in Shadowrun is just freaking amazing. Like, it's like everything makes you feel like, Oh, god. I gotta get that. Yeah. I wanna use that. Right. That's so cool. But I've built all kinds of characters in the hopes of, a plan. Some of my favorites were, like, I had, I had a, a character called Swisse Mhmm. Who He didn't have any really great stats Mhmm. Or skills. Mhmm. But what he had was a ton of money. Well, I mean, I chose resources really high, and so he got skill wires, which are basically like, A chip in a chip jack where he could put knowledge chips in his head. And once that's in his head, he knows it. Yeah. And so I just had, like, these finger compartments in my fingers. I Open up these finger each each of my finger compartments had different chips for different skills. Oh, that's cool. Need to fly this chopper. Swiss is a Swiss army knife. I'll just Flip the stove open and sticks in my head. Yeah. And now I can play the chopper. In a way, he almost he almost ran like a like a wizard in D and D. It was like, these are his spell lots. Like, he has to prepare his spell list. These are these are the chips I brought with me. Oh. This is what I can do. That's a really fun way to play a character like that. That is what sometimes it can feel with, like, wizard. You know? I prepare these spell slots. I'm I'm ready for this occasion. And, like, that is then what you are stuck with. Like, you know, you have to make those careful choices, and that is what you get for this entire, scenario, this entire heist, whatever you're gonna be doing. Right. And then you have to decide, like, is it gonna be important to have the the chopper flying? Yeah. Right. And Like you said, like like like, the heist. It's like you that's that planning stages for. Okay. So we're gonna try and steal this chopper on the roof. I'll take my chopper Skill wired. You know? I like, now but then, okay, we showed up and, you know, we alerted the guards and the chopper or whatever. We were too late. The chopper Took off. Mhmm. Now I got this fucking chopper chick Yeah. Chip, and I I wasted it. Yeah. Everything goes sideways always in shower, and that's Part of the fun. But yeah. So that was another one. And then also what's really fun in Shatter On is just like the names Mhmm. Because you're Leaning into that, like, cyberpunk kinda Mhmm. That cheesy eighties rad dude kind of vibe as we do. And so I had, like, a, I had a girl I had a I had a, she was a she was a razor girl. So she had, like, Hand razors that would shoot out, and she, her name was Wednesday Adams, and her Her shadow run name was hump day. That is not that's a perfect name for a runner. Like Yeah. Like, Wednesday. It's hump day. So she just it was like, hey, hump day. Let's do this. And she'd That's so good. And so, we've got characters in my in our game. 1 of the MPC's name is, like, Leah landline. Mhmm. And she's a lady lady landline. She's a decker. Just playing with that stuff. Like, the the eighties mentality of how things work is just so fun. Yeah. Just have fun with it. Yeah. I love it. I mean, though, that's literally you're playing TTRPGs to have fun. Like, just have fun with it. Just just embrace Yeah. The goofs and and and the the themes of the time and, like, the themes of the game. Like, I was literally just on a call with, Riley from fantasy and fantasy and foe adventure co. Or oh god. Friend and foe adventure co. I keep thinking fantasy because we're talking about fantasy stuff. Of That's a tough name to say fast. Yeah. Yeah. Friend and foe adventure code. There we go. But I I was talking with them earlier, and we were just talking about how it's like, you need to, like, lean into those tropes. You need to lean into those, like, inspirations for these games because that's what they're inspired by. If it's fire by, you know, kind of that John Wick goofy, like, even like, I shouldn't even say goofy, but over the top, like, that kind of theme. Like, lean into it and have fun with it. Don't try to be, like if if you wanna play it serious, play it serious. But Sure. If you wanna lean into it and wanna even, like, take advantage of, like, they made the system for this reason, lean into it and have fun with it. Let's go. Totally. Still it. Totally. It's true. It's totally it's so true. It's, and it's it's sort of what, Oh, man. I was lost by train of thought. I had I was I was you just inspired something, and then I like, my coffee ran out. Now I'm I'm Coca Cola. Now I'm doomed. Now it's all downhill. Oh, no. But no. No. You were talking about, like like, the, leaning into the tropes and stuff. And, and that's sort of what I was worried about when I when I When I was I I had played Shadowrun Mhmm. The Genesis game, and it had this vibe of this very over the top eighties, like, you know, just very over the top. Yeah. Over the top. You know? And, and then as I would listen to podcasts or or watch live plays or or whatever. Even just looking at core rulebooks for later editions, it all felt much more cool. Yes. Slate. Polished. Yeah. Polished and, like, Miss mysterious. You know? Like, whatever. And I was like, that's cool, and that's definitely very shadow run. But, like, it does it's something felt different. Mhmm. And so when I was we were making our podcast, you know, I was reading the when I read 2nd edition, I was like, oh my god. That's this This feels exactly like I remember. Like, this is it. And so when we're making the podcast, I'm like, we're just gonna freaking lean into that. Yeah. Like, that's what we're going for. And And I was a little worried because I I didn't see much else like that out there. It was mostly that kinda cool, sleek, and that kind of became this that that's You're gonna do shadow run, then you guys have to have the digital glitching, and you gotta be wearing, like, dark shades and and be very almost Almost over the top in a different way. Yeah. Fit fit the look. Fit the look, fit the feels. This is this is Shadowrun. Mhmm. And, and so I was worried we were just we're gonna people be like, they're not taking this seriously. And and it was in a really nice surprise to see people that like, like you said, like, a lot of people, that's how they play. Mhmm. And they I think a lot of people were kinda missing that for a while. So We feel You feel in that easy piece. I love it. Yeah. Like, it's like one of the things I was worried about. Like, they're gonna think I'm an idiot that Plays like a child Mhmm. Is our biggest strike. They're like, this is great. He plays just like I was when I was an idiot 12 year old. Yeah. I'm like, thanks. I'm glad you like it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm that idiot 12 year old. It's it's so that's been really awesome. It's actually one of the biggest compliments we've ever we ever get. It's like, that just makes you feel like, How how what an awesome compliment. You know? Like, that that's what we all want to tap into when we play D and D. You think you watch stranger things. Like, oh, I fit fuck. I wish I'd played In the eighties like that. You know? Like, it and played that game and got that that vibe. And so when I hear people tell us, like, this feels like that. And I'm like, god. It's so awesome. Sweet. I love that so much. It's just Yeah. Just warms my heart. It's so it's so cute. I love it. I do want to cover a little bit, though. I wanna ask since, like, a big thing has been, like, the lore of Shadowrun. And I'd like to ask, how important would you say that is for someone to know before running the game. Wow. Another amazing question. So so that, again, it's kind of gonna depend on who you talk to. Mhmm. The Shadowrun is the lore. It directly affects the rules. Yeah. If that makes it's trying to make how that makes sense. It's it's the the the lore is rooted in the rules. Mhmm. Which I think is so cool. It's a it's a inverse of most games. Most games, the rules are the rules, and the lore is, like, built on top of that. In Shadowrun, it's very different. All the rules are are incredibly entwined with how the lore works. Mhmm. And so everything feels just there's it said Is it there's not nothing else feels like it. Mhmm. It's all so intricately intertwined. So You make me think it's so bad. It's so cool. There's a the whole the beginning of the book is called, and so it came to pass, and it's about the timeline. Everything changes from about, I wanna say it's, like, 2012 and on Mhmm. When the world ended and the new thing happened. And all of a sudden, you know, People are getting powers, and then out of nowhere, people start giving birth to dwarves and elves, and they think like they're demons. Yeah. What a shocker. What is this? And then, And then we kinda get used to that Mhmm. For a little while. Like, that shocked everybody. And then a few years later, like, you know, now computer technology's getting crazy. Mhmm. And, like, people are getting cyber implants. So, like, okay, we're getting used to, like, the elves and dwarves things. Well, now goblinization happens, and people just randomly start turning into orcs and trolls. And it's like everyone's just like, what the fuck is happening? And then this game is like, cool, cool, cool. All that happened, and now we're 50 years later. Mhmm. Yeah. And we've all dealt with all that. Sense. Now you're here, and we're it's just it's such a cool the beginning just tells you how and how also how corporations got their, They're extraterritoriality where they are just like they now basically own the planet, the mega corpse. And, And so what I would say is this, I don't think you have to know you definitely do I don't know everything. You definitely do not have to know everything to play Shadowrun in terms of the lore. But you're really doing yourself a disservice if you don't at least read that intro. Yeah. And they do a good job in that intro. It just it's a few it's like it's like 10 pages of just some of the coolest lore, and then there's, like, a little short story in there that gives you, like, the vibe and the feel of how it all works. So cool. And by there, you're good to go Mhmm. In terms of lore. You don't have to keep track of, like, you know, this mega corp had this thing happen with this other mega corp. Like, That stuff started to get more and more specific and much more deep and and and, You know, as as the additions went on, that's another reason why I like 2nd edition so much. It's kind of still kind of a blank slate in the sense that, like, you're going back to where they They just started you off. Yeah. And you can make up your own truths of the world and make up your own stories and things like that too. And that's a real thank you for just driving this the source books, what's really cool is that when they would give you source books. They give you a little bit more of that. Right? So maybe they give you 1 on London. Oh. You know, the London source book? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, so there's a London source book, and then there's So so Shadowrun, by the I'm getting ahead of myself. The the core rule book, it's set in Seattle Mhmm. Which is a very random place, but it's set in Seattle. And so most people play in Seattle because that's kind of where the game is focused. I love that. Because, like I said, the Native American nations are formed. They seceded from From the United Canadian and American States. Canada joined up because, like, everyone was the mega corps and everything were Taking over. And so what's kinda cool is there's all these sort of Native American nations around Seattle. And then there's Seattle, which is a part of the UCAS, the United Committed American States. Mhmm. And so there's this this this huge variety of Countries and, and different terrain and different ideologies. All around Seattle is this little island in the middle of it. Fun. Yeah. So So you've got this, like, Blade Runner hellscape in Seattle Mhmm. But then you've got Tir Tangier, which is like an like, the elves actually made their own, like, almost like a, Rivendell Mhmm. Like like, place in their own nation right next to Seattle. So you got that place you could go to, and you got, these other sort of nations of that are very different. Yeah. And, the the sourcebooks kind of develop those different areas more. What's really cool about it is that it'll tell that they the if I get one here. Yeah. And they need 1. Go ahead. Grab 1. Where's my, one second. Seattle Sourcebook. Okay? This is some sort of a book that was like it it's like, let's get deeper into what this City is and what is in it. And if the whole thing is written exactly like a a city guide. Us ads. So cool. Ads for the different places that are in Seattle. Oh, I love bad. Down by neighborhood, and it's broken down by the different areas in Seattle. There's a big there's all the maps at the in the back and tells you all about Seattle and the different places you can visit. And it's written like a real place. Yeah. You know? And then what's so cool about it, because you mentioned that you get to kinda pick and choose as a GM which you wanna choose, They're all written with that in mind. And so it'll tell you this information. Mhmm. It'll be like, there's this many people in this In this area of Seattle, and this is the poverty rate, and this is this and this and this. And then underneath it, they have these things that are like shadowlands, which is kinda like a like a message board that are like all the information was actually uploaded to this, like, Shadowrun database, and these people are commenting on it. That's so much sense. You have these comments from people that are go, yeah, they say there's this many people, but they're not taking into account the people that live in the sewers underneath it, that probably 3 times that many people live in that area. And then someone else says, that's like an old wives' tale. Like Oh, that's so cool. And so you're you're never know the truth. There's this unreal unreliable narrator that's in all the source books that kinda lets you as a GM decide who's right. Yeah. It's almost like they present, like, rumors for you to then decide what if those are true or not. Right. And you don't even have to decide immediately because you could decide when your players go. Like, oh, who knows? Yeah. There could be so many more people there. You don't know. Let's see. Exactly. It like, they. Exactly. You let the game kinda most drive how your story goes, and the lore is, for the most part, is, You know, is wide open. Mhmm. They hit these really big formative moments in the timeline and the beginning of this poor rule book from but from there on, It's kind of anyone's guess as to how things are going. There's information. Right? Like, a dragon runs for president at some point, which is pretty awesome. And natural wins, and it wins. And that is, but what are the Things that lead up to that. Right? What was the campaign like? What like, you know, there's there's source book. There's actually adventures that lets you kinda help Yeah. Playing through the dragon campaign. So cool. I'm playing the dragon game, but not the one that everyone thinks of. Right. And that's what I think. Dragons own, like, corporations and shit. Like, their their hoard of gold is different now, right, in the future. I love it. Mhmm. Yeah. But but that that to your point, like, the lore so to answer your question after all that, the the the lore is not as important. It's just this really beautiful icing. Like, it's it's the cake. It's the the the big the basic lore, which is in the first 15 pages of the book, are are so formative to how the game plays and how the feel of the game is. But beyond that, it's it's just icing That you can add how you want and you really do get a choice in what it is. Yeah. Because the books are kinda laid out in that way that lets you sort of decide, like, Who's who's bullshit in this exchange? Is it you know what I mean? Mhmm. No. I love that. And it's even even a good way to just give you ideas. Like you don't even have to follow the lore stuff. You could just read it and be like, okay. What what would be a really cool scenario that I could run my players through that's inspired by maybe, like Totally. 3 times the city living in the sewers. You know, that would be really interesting. Like, okay. Let's explore that bit and see what would happen there. That would be a really fun way to that would be a really fun thing to center a campaign around. Like, that's a Totally. Fantastic a way to get ideas, especially with it all being optional. Because I think, there are people that get really intimidated by games where the lore is so important. And unless you Mhmm. Already know it, like, I know, the the One Ring. Like, you know, people who are super into Lord of the Rings love that because, like, they know all the lore, and they get they can get right into it and all of that. But I know some people when it comes to games like Vampire the Masquerade, where it's super lore heavy, and some people are, like, I don't even want to run it because there's so much lore you have to consider before even, like, revenue all those worries. Mhmm. I had all those same worries with Shatteron, and I wasn't sure. I was like, I can't tell you exactly when or, like, you know, even to this day. Mhmm. Right now, I'm talking to you. I've played this game for a year and a half. I have an actual play. I've talked to the creator of Tom Dowd. I've done all these things, and I still couldn't tell you exactly what, Renraku sells. Mhmm. The the makeup corporation. I'm not sure exactly what they're known for. Mhmm. I I know, like, I know what, Ast Technology does. I know some of the other ones, but, like, I I don't know all of I I can look that up. Like, I know that they're a mega corp. I know that they have a pyramid In downtown Seattle, the archeology. I know that stuff. But if they go, let's go to the Renrocchio archeology, I'm like, oh, shit. I need to probably Yeah. Read up on what a Renrocchio is, but, like, I don't have to know it Exactly. Run the game. Yeah. If you need to know it, you'll know it. But Right. From there, you can know that it exists. Right. And and to your point, what's so nice about I have all these sourcebooks, and the reason why is because they're written so creatively. They're the the Seattle sourcebook A Seattle source book. It's like a city guide. Yeah. And then there's, there's Shadowbeat, and that that whole thing is about, media in the in the 6th world is what it's called. Like, what how what what TV programs are on? What what how what is news? What entertainment? What? Sports. There are all kinds of sportsbooks. But, like, so So cool. Like, it is so creative. Be creative and have fun within, like, world building. Like, that's just really, really neat. I adore that. I love it. And so Most of them are are divorced from the rules in a way. Like, you can use any of them for Like you said, I I like Sourcebook. I can pick I can point to a page Mhmm. And I'll see something on it that will that'll inspire a a session. Yeah. You know, I'll be like, that's oh, shit. I didn't know that. You know? Or that's really cool. I wanna focus on that. Or and then with the shadow beat, it's the same thing. It's like There's, you know, there's, like, kind of like Hunger Games style games that are happening in the Redmond Barons, which are kind of like the old, really rundown part of of Seattle in the in in Shadowrun. And I've gotten to that trouble too. I went on a job interview once with with this, Well, in a job in Seattle, and I don't know anything about Seattle. I just know ShoutOutOutOut Seattle. And so I was there, sense. And she's like, I live on, I live on Mercer Island. Mhmm. But do you know Mercer Island? And I'm like and in my head, I'm like, it's not council island. It's in in Shadowlands, it's called Council Island. Do not say just say you don't know about it, And don't act like you know it, you idiot. You're going to look so stupid to this person. And so she kept, like, talking about all these things I've heard about. Like, yeah. No. No. I don't know anything. I've never What is that? I've never heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, actually, I've I've never heard of Seattle until a day. So Right. There's a space needle there. Right? Right. She's like, yeah. Like, right next to Renraku Oncology. Right? She's like, what? No. So it's, anyway, sorry. But it's it's cool because it's rooted in this real place too. And that's another thing that my my my player My players get really into it. And Dan, specifically, my one of my players, he plays Tina de Bonemail. She's a 9 and a half foot troll bruiser Love it. Who wants to be an actress? Love it. Yes. And she so he has a lot of fun with that. Mhmm. Like, how do I root like, our it's Set in our world, but in the future of our world from an eight eighties perspective. So he'll play with that a lot. You know? It's like, What are actors he'll he's he's Sylvester Stallone's grandkid is, like, now someone he Yeah. Community improv theater with or something. It's like can do that kinda stuff and it's it's cool because you're you You can play with the real world a bit. Yeah. No. That's so fun. So goofy. I love it so much. So freaking interesting. And, I I mean, like, this has been so, so, so good. And so I'd like to, as much as I'd love to just entertain more thoughts and and ramble on forever, we should probably, you know, stay a bit on topic because it's we're get we're about, oh, an hour and a half. It's fine. I warned you. Oh, no. It's great. To be fair, I warned you. I you dig, and I am not disappointed at all. This is fantastic. Like, you sure you wanna do this? Yes. I do. I love it. But, so with with shadow run, you mentioned some of the, fears that you've had had as a GM, you know, with running the game, the fears with, like, the lore and stuff. Right. From your perspective. Do you have, like, any advice you would give people who would like to run Shadowrun and maybe may feel intimidated by the lore or even just the, community around the game and and stuff like that. Oh, yes. And I and and that's kind of what I've been trying to do, Use our platform, if you will, to be pretentious about it. We have a little we we don't not we don't have a platform. We're just a little podcast. But, it what it's been nice is it's been inspiring people to play that that have been afraid to, and and so my advice is that to just do it. Yeah. Like, Buy 2nd edition or whatever edition. I I love it. Oh, 2nd the 2nd edition. But, like, let's be real. Buy 2nd edition. Any edition will work. Mhmm. Right? People there are people that love 4th edition. They love the crunch. If they're really big into crunch, they love 5th edition. Or and then there's some people that don't even love The the crunch, but love that there's wireless and stuff. Yeah. And they love that about it. So there's no wrong addition. But what used to upset me It was that people would act like there is no simpler edition. And I was like, there is, though. Yeah. And so with 2nd edition, that's kinda what you get out of it. And What I would what I my advice to new people is to is that it exists. Mhmm. That's my first thing. It exists. 2nd edition is is really very, very simple. It's as simple as you let it be. Mhmm. And if you go, well, I wish there was a rule for, you know, For, you know, controlling drones from a distance. Oh, they exist. Go get the or you can make up your own. Yeah. The book is very abstract Mhmm. With with especially with rigor rules. Rigors. It's just sort of like, here's the stuff you can buy, and then you're kinda like, oh, how do I do this? There's, like, one little, like, paragraph on it, but what I love someone like me loves that. Mhmm. That's total freedom to go, alright, well, I have my little, like, how D and D does where it's, like, this is the, The difficulty chart Mhmm. Of of numbers. Right? Like, difficulty value. Mhmm. I guess that's what it's called in in In, in D and D, where it's like this number is an average challenge, and this is a difficult challenge. You just look at those, and that's your bible. And you go with, like, your your rigors flying drones around with their mind and shit, and you're just looking at this thing, like, how hard is that? That's the the target number you're gonna try to beat. Yeah. So sorry. Going back to your story, because you're you're question, away from my story and into your question. There my my my advice is to is that 2nd edition exists. A simpler edition exists. But To make it simpler for yourself, the the thing that that you really should do is look at the combat action. Read the beginning of the book. Get you you're not gonna stop yourself Yeah. Once you've started it. It's fucking amazing. Don't worry about creating characters right away. They have archetypes they have, like, sample characters in the book. Grab a couple of those Yeah. And and roll some sample combat scenarios. Grab grab a buddy or whatever if you guys just have a second. You can take the sample characters and you can just Go through some combat scenario. Once you have combat down, you've got the game. Yeah. It's a very unified system. Everything works the way combat does. But don't play as a rigger, don't play as a mage, or a decker at first. Just grab some people, get really into, like, the cyberpunk vibe of it, and learn the combat and how that stuff works. And once that's kind of become second nature to you and you're not slowing down a ton to look at how what what do I roll? Is it my what do my body? Once you have that kind of down, you've done that kind of fluid, Now introduce some magic. Yeah. You know, and now you and you realize it's the same exact premise. It's just now we're looking at different values to see how Where your target number comes from kind of thing. And, and you can put that information kind of on your player a little bit. Like, okay, if you're a mage, I want you to kinda keep track of, Help me out Yeah. And and Please. And do this a little bit. That's always the bane of our existence. Right? It's, like, know the rules. Read the what is it? Read the fucking manual. Please read the rules. Like, I I have I have introduced people to a game by just giving them a reference cheap, because I know that they're not gonna read the rules. And so I'm, like, just at least something. Have at least some grasp on how some of your facing information works because I'm I'm doing a 1000000 things over here. Yeah. And and and that's it it's really that. It's just it's pairing it down. What's really great about Shatteron and what's cool about it is that there's no classes Mhmm. And there's no, there's no there's no levels. You don't level your character. Oh, yeah. So you you just can kind of improve your abilities and stuff. And so because of that, what's what's nice about D and D and what makes it Easy as that. Pretty much if you're starting with a level one character, that's the basic. Yeah. That's start with that, and then it gets more complex as you level up. Mhmm. Chutter Run's kind of You're you're your character. You're gonna have always be this. You kinda start with all that front loaded a little bit. And so what you kinda have to do is, like, put to put the training wheels on is, like, Don't allow rigors or deckers or pages at first. Just just play the game. Start off simple. That that's my major, Piece of advice, and and also just, don't get bogged down either. Like, As long as people are like, fuck. That's cool. You're winning. Yeah. You did it. Right? Like, okay. Did you get the modifier? Everyone that that was oh, man. That was one of the, the biggest, like, kind of boost confidence boosters I ever got was I I told someone, like, yeah, I played this combat thing, but I I got the modifiers wrong. I forgot to, like, you know, I forgot to, like, to include, like, these for their damage or for whatever. Like, I I got it a little bit wrong. And the guy was like, dude, I've played this for 30 years. I'm always still forgetting modifiers. And I was like, Oh, and it, like, it, like, unlocked my brain where it's, like, that's going to happen. Mhmm. Like, obviously, don't try not to do that. Mhmm. Like, be try to be aware as aware as possible. You're gonna miss stuff. And as long as people are laughing and having fun, like, that's the fucking point. Exactly. Yes. You know? You're gonna make mistakes. It inevitable. Just just roll with it. Just have fun. Right. And and Right. Even then, I think that, like, if if you make a mistake in, like, a ruling or whatever, and people have fun with it. And you find that, hey. Actually, that was more fun than actually running the game the way it was supposed to be. You can also just go with that too. Like, you don't have to play it the way that everyone else plays it. It is for your table. It is for your enjoyment. Play it the way that you enjoy it. Right. And for that and and it it might vary moment to moment. Mhmm. Right? Like, and and that's that kinda how I play Shadowrun too is, like, if if If, especially, Deckers. Mhmm. Deckers are the are the hackers in this game. Yeah. They plug in and they can hack, Go into computer systems into virtual reality and basically be on this different plane. Yeah. Yeah. That gets a lot of grief. People there's they've have hated their decking rules forever in Shadowrun. And So that was one of my challenges too when I started playing this game. I was like, I I keep touting that this game is easy. Mhmm. That there's a way to play this, And I haven't tackled Matrix yet. I need to tackle Matrix. And so and the 2nd season, I I did. I I read it. I read through it. I kinda got a understanding of how it work, and I kind of figured out my own little way of tweaking it so that it works for my table. But that's kind of the way I play. If if if it doesn't make a difference, if it's not dramatic Like, if it's if if you need a hack, I just wanna, like, hack and see if I can, like, find anything about this guy. Mhmm. Right? Okay. Let's just roll the dice and see if you did it. We'll make it like 1 roll. Yeah. We'll see if you did it. But if now we're in this room and I need to hack to open this door, and if I don't open this door, like, this poison gas that's coming to this vent is gonna kill us, like, okay, now we can slow this down. Mhmm. And every we're gonna go through every single thing because we're gonna make this moment, You know, super dramatic. Because that's what it is. Every success matters in every role. Yeah. And so you take, like, maybe 10 minutes For 15 minutes to go over, like, 10 seconds of game of real game time because every moment matters. I love that. And that's kinda how I run Shadowrun. Yeah. Right? It's like like an action movie. When the when the action slows down and all this shit is happening, That's where Shadowhun really shines too because it's like it allows you to get there. Mhmm. It's not like, games where we're like, well, it's just the dice roll and we see. It's like, no. Okay. Well, you know, we're we're gonna roll this, and now we're gonna have the this thing roll against that. Yeah. And it's like the drama just keeps kinda Yeah. And you get to watch it unfold slowly over time. And then it's, like, again, it does build up that even tension at the table. Like, we are going through every role, and everyone's just gonna be at the edge of their seats. Like, okay, is this actually gonna succeed? And then, like, every time they roll they roll what they need, it's gonna be like, okay, but there's still 2 more roles left. Like, there's so much more to go. Exactly. Love it. And it affects your actions going forward too. Right? It's like, okay. I was gonna do this, but, oh, shit. He's having trouble there. I might help him with that. It's such a fun time. Yeah. And, and that's the key is just like, If it's not gonna be fun to watch somebody hack a computer, then don't don't make it involved. Yeah. Make it a dice roll Yeah. And move on. Exactly. Right? The book doesn't tell you to do that, But do that. Just do that if that's what you wanna do. That's what's, that's my advice is, is make it fun. And And and you have to play it a bit to know where those areas are to trim a little bit, but it doesn't take long to find it. Yeah. And and a lot of it will just be if you like those. And this is where it's it's great to consume media that is, like, in the same realm as the games that you're playing because you can even prep yourself for what those moments are. Like, you know, I watch a bunch of eighties action movies and, like, get, like Totally. Get it down. Like, okay, where are the moments of tension. We're in the moments that we kinda slow it down a little bit and step And like, you know, go step by step. Like, absolutely. No. I love that so much. That's so fun. And you can even do that in any game too. You know, just make it more checks, build up that tension as long as it's, you know and that's where, again, it matters with your table because some people would be, like, oh, yeah. That would be really cool to do, and some people would be, like, no. What like, we do one role anyway. So there is obviously table Right. Table, relationships. Varies. Right? Yeah. It it's Exactly. It's it's all subjective Mhmm. In a in a way, but what I but what I will say a good selling point about Shadowrun is it it has Rules to support both ways. Yeah. I love it. And that's kinda cool. Like, there there are games that are super like a rules light game That some crunch loving person will will be like, there's I'm having no fun with this. Right? And vice versa, a game that's just in so incredibly crunchy That someone that doesn't wanna deal with all that is just having no fun. Yeah. I I feel like what's really nice about Shadowrun is there's a versatility there. You can kind of you could kinda pair it down. And and talking to Tom Dowd, I learned that that was sort of the point. Whether it was worded well enough to let people know that because there was an air an air of, like, get good. Yeah. Like, sorry. This is what they intended. It's supposed to be hard, And a certain caliber of person can get it. Now his point was, like, no. I I made this game watching action movies. Yeah. I wanted to feel like a fucking awesome bullet rain. You know, it's pull bullet time action movie, and so that's why we built it this way. And that really kind of I felt validated me Yeah. With the way I was running it away. It's like, when those moments slow it down and hear all the rules to support that That that drama build that moment. But, otherwise, just just move. Just keep keep it going. Do what works, and I love that too. Rules that support the game and the mechanics that support the game and the stories and just all the happy brain chemicals. But I think, though, we are starting to get close you the end here. And seriously, this has been so fantastic. And I have a end question that I always love to ask. The the funny thing is I feel like you've answered it a few times throughout the episode, but we'll we'll we'll do it one more time just just for fun, because it's so great. And that is it it's a bit of a hard question to answer, but I'd like to see what you say. Why do you love Shadowrun? Why do I love Shadowrun? Overall, there are all these things that you love about it. But, like, if you had to, I guess, convince someone with just one thing, why do you love shadow run to get other people to play it, to to show them how much you care for the game. You know? What how do you what do you love about Shadowrun? I I love I love How unapologetically just weird and beautiful and punk It is. Mhmm. Especially no. I'm talking about 2nd edition, kind of specific word, because that's kind of like, I I think have I made that clearer? But but in general, just shattering is this weird it's got the it's got the it's got warts on it. It's not beautiful. Mhmm. It's just it's kind of this weird and, us a bit ugly. Like Asymmetrical. Yeah. There's there's a lot of things. It it doesn't Fucking care. Mhmm. You know, it it just is what it is. Is is it balanced? No. Is it is it is it, you know, is it Fair this guy goes faster than you in combat? No. Is it fair that mage can literally explode you from inside your body with a fireball? No. But it it just it's very unapologetic about that. It's like, this is the game. This is the lore. This is how it works, and it becomes this very believable world because of that. It's just like, this is just how it is. There's no rules, balance, reason for it that's explain to you. It's just magic works that way. And and fun little thing that I learned in the book club is that the guy that wrote the magic system was a practicing mage. He believed in magic, and this is Oh, really? Swear to God. He said his name was, Paul Hume. Mhmm. And or is. He's still he's still around. He, was just tell Tom Dev, like, this is how magic works. Uh-huh. And so they were like, this is gold. That's so good. This into the game. So So there's this there's this kind of believability there, but but to, again, go trying to strip it down to your question. I just I just love how It's a punch you in the face punk game with cyberpunk wrapped around it, and then magic infused. So you just get these these really Ugly, gritty, just badass game. It's it's just it's just so it's an experience. See. If you ever play it, it it's like you you're gonna be like it doesn't matter how long it takes to get through that session and get through this really whatever. You're gonna think it's like a movie that makes you think. Yeah. When you get out of it, you're like, I've never played a game that made me feel that way. What was that? Yeah. Like, in D and D, I'm you you're a little bit bummed sometimes if you didn't get into combat because that's kind of what that game is sorta geared for. I mean, you can kinda get around I mean, that's just the big focus. I mean, what everything Yeah. Revolves around. Right. Like, shit. I didn't get to I didn't get to fight anybody or or whatever. Shout out to Ron, you don't feel that way. It's everything feels lived in and and real and everything is just it's just this feeling of, like, You know, your your dad it's like a noir film. Mhmm. You're just you're this ugly character that's just scratching out an existence, but goddamn, do you really wanna be that guy? You really wanna be that guy, though? Yeah. It's fucking cool. You know? This is like a whole love letter to, like, shadow run 2nd edition, and it's so good. Yes. Freaking love shadow run. I mean, it's it's It's it was so formative to me, in terms of, it just it was this weird I I'll tell you exactly. When I was a kid, I I played the Genesis game. I literally was like, what the Fuck is Yeah. It was I turned the game on, and this huge cow skull comes on the screen. It's got this this digital cyber circuit board behind it, and it says shadow run. And I'm like, okay. And I hit it, and it's a fantasy game. It's like an RPG. But I got nuns, and this elf dude is wearing a trench coat and shades, and it doesn't tell you anything. It just gets you into it. You go into it. You're going to a dark Corner in a bar. There's a orc that's giving you a sketchy job to do, and I just was like, what the fucking sense. What am I getting into right now? Like Right. But I couldn't stop playing. The music was so gritty and cool, And the vibe was just felt very, and and to to talk about the Genesis game just a second. Like, what I loved about it was, like, There was no, like, leveling. Mhmm. Yeah. And it was like, if you wanna get into this room, like, your brother died, and this is the story of the Beginning of the Genesis game, but like your brother died and his stuff is in this hotel. A resort apartment. And the landlord won't let you in Until you have this much money to pay this guy's background. That's fun. And so you're leveling as you're trying to make the money To pay for this thing, but it never breaks that immersion. Yeah. It's never like, sorry. You have to be level 8 to get to the store. It's like, no. You need to have this money. And and so when you play Shadowrun the RPG, it's it all makes sense that way. It just feels this very much like It it just makes sense. It's like, oh, well, of course. I need the money. You know? Like, of course of course, I I I don't wanna cast a level fireball because that could knock me out. Yeah. Put me to sleep. Put anybody to sleep. So it just it's this very, real lived in world that just is weird, money. It doesn't give a shit, and I love that. I love that. I love it. Man, I really wanna read this. I really wanna play it, and good lord. I hope that other people do too. Let me know if you do. Yeah. Yeah. If if if I want to hear everybody, I think, talk to Twitter. The Message me. I want a picture of your book. I just wanna know. I I just I love the idea of people getting into shot. It's one of my favorite things is seeing people that are, like, Their eyes when they when they discover it. Yeah. And they learn, like, what oh my god. What is this? This is amazing. You know? It's it's great. It's so good. So, yeah, everyone, I mean, I think this is just a formal invitation. If you wanna talk about shadow run 2nd edition, go Inferences, but not really, but kind of, but not really. Go over to Pink Fohawk. Talk with Ben, show show him your books, and be like, yeah. You know, I love this game just as much. Start a conversation. Get into it because, like, I think that's the best thing about these. Is, like, the community that can build up over the love of a single game. Like, I love this game so long. I know. Right? I mean, that's what that's what the coolest thing about this podcast is. I get to talk to people about games that they love. What other way is like, that's, like, the best time to spend my time. All over the world. Yeah. Exactly. It's But we have in our Discord, we have people from, you know, Australia. We have people in, you know, England, and it's like It's a shared experience. I love it. Yeah. And and everyone's we have, like, a shelfies room, and people send their shelves of all their Books and stuff, and it's just like it's like, damn, it's cool to nerd out with with life by the people. So yeah. Invitation is open. My DMs are open, and, like, keep it. Let's yeah. Whatever. We'll keep it let's try to keep it PG, but, like, you know, whatever. I'll If we're talking Shatteron, I'll deal with it if they if they get beyond that. I think that's a great place to end this episode. Willow, thank you so much for having this was a lot of fun, and I really do love your your podcast. I feel like you're doing a really Like, what I want to do for shadow run is what you're doing for just RPGs in general for people and, like, making it a less daunting experience. I think that's needed and necessary and more relevant than ever. Oh, for sure. And you're great at it. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. And, I mean, if there is any time that you are like, hey. I really love this other game. Let me know because I am more than happy to have you back on the show because this was Oh god. Fantastic. Alright. Yeah. No. Just let me know. And as as long as we haven't covered it before and even if we have covered it, maybe in the future, we'll do another episode on. Who knows? The possibilities are endless. Totally. But yeah. No. Let me know. And and, seriously, thank you so much, and this this has been awesome. And I guess our kind of final moments here. Again, let everyone know where they can go check out your show and where they can find you and all of that stuff because they need to go listen to pink full hawk right now and hear about shadow run because if you just listen to this, why wouldn't you? Like, just do it, please. Yeah. It's requirement. Please do not think I am I have any supposedly for Shadowrun. If you don't like me and hate me, still check out Shadowrun. It's, We were nominated for an any in 2022. We won an audio verse award in 2022. So, like, I'm not saying that. They said that. They they are saying we're good. And that the professionals check us out. Yeah. They they they can you could we did not win in any. We did not we did not have enough fans to win any, but we got nominated, and that was really great. But, yeah, check us out. We are pink fauxhawk. We, and we we release episodes every 2 weeks. We're our 2nd season. It's a very small back catalog to catch up and and be up to date. That's my that's my way of, like, Making the lazy thing a positive. There's not that many episodes. You can catch right up. Absolutely. And, and our social we're everywhere on social media too. So we would love to hear from you, new fans and old fans of Shadowrun alike. Yeah. And all of those links, of course, will be in the description of this episode too so that, you know, ease of ease of checking out shadow run and pink faux hawk and all of that cool stuff because it is required now. I'm I'm saying it now. It is required to listen to this episode. You got to this point. Go check out pink faux hawk and shadow run and go get the game. But yeah. Thank you. I appreciate I Appreciate bullying our listeners into that, but thank you. I didn't wanna do it, but that's great. That's what the show is. We're bullying you to play other games. Go do it. But yeah. No. I think The nerds have become the bullies. It's perfect. It's amazing. But, yeah, I think we are going to end here. So thank you everyone so much for listening, and thank you, Ben, so much for coming on and talking about Shadowrun.